Visions

[Master Vigil]

The majority of mystics in any religion or spiritual path claim to have "visions" of some kind or another. What are your thoughts on visions? Do you have them?

 

[Sunstone]

What do you mean by "visions"? And how do you know the majority of mystics claim to have them?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I tend to term a vision as a particularly potent dream--be it of the day or night. Or one of those flashes of thought that seem to come from nowhere.

I've had such things; I think everyone does, but doesn't necessarily term them as such. Particularly, I've had some bizarrely accurate dreams of events that occur to me later.

But what is the separation between the waking reality and the dreaming reality? When is something of normal, mundane sight, and when is something visionary?

 

[Master Vigil]

What do you mean by "visions"? And how do you know the majority of mystics claim to have them?

I mean "visions". Whether is waking thought, or in dream. They claim it in their writings.

I tend to term a vision as a particularly potent dream--be it of the day or night. Or one of those flashes of thought that seem to come from nowhere.

I've had such things; I think everyone does, but doesn't necessarily term them as such. Particularly, I've had some bizarrely accurate dreams of events that occur to me later.

But what is the separation between the waking reality and the dreaming reality? When is something of normal, mundane sight, and when is something visionary?

I wonder if it is simply up to the one having them to decide which is which.

 

[YmirGF]

I'll get back to this thread later. It's movie time in Paradise, lol.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I mean "visions". Whether is waking thought, or in dream. They claim it in their writings.

I wonder if it is simply up to the one having them to decide which is which.

One man's vision of reality is another's dream-scape. Perhaps the visions of the mystics is their personal view of the world of symbols we exist in. They just happen to not share the same symbols of the mainstream.

 

[Gentoo]

The majority of mystics in any religion or spiritual path claim to have "visions" of some kind or another. What are your thoughts on visions? Do you have them?

I think a lot of people brush off the ideas of visions as tricks of the brain or light. I'd be willing to bet that everyone has had them, whether they're recognized as visions is something else though.

 

[YmirGF]

The majority of mystics in any religion or spiritual path claim to have "visions" of some kind or another.

For the most part that is correct.

What are your thoughts on visions?

Put in simple terms a fencepost ought to be able to discern, so-called visions are like postcards from the focus personality's (you) larger identity to the "mortal" self in time. There are no real divisions within the self, so "true" visions will always be a thing of realization rather than "false" visions which will seem to be "revelations" from an external source. Reality comes from within, not the other way around. Just don't get too hung up on "true" and "false". Keep in mind that even incorrectly discerned visions can have a tremendous impact on the society of the visionary if the visionary plays their cards right and gets a few much needed breaks.

Do you have them?

The short answer is, of course I have had many visions, in the hundreds, if not thousands. Every meditation can be a major "jumping off" point, just as dreams provide exquisite gateways to real understanding.

I am of the school of thought that dictates that visions are to be shared, not coveted and blown out of preportion by the egotistical self. It is my belief that if people say what they have seen, we would quickly develop a body of information that would show possibilities that are currently unimaginable to the average human animal.

But... I could be wrong. :flirt:

 

[blackout]

One man's vision of reality is another's dream-scape. Perhaps the visions of the mystics is their personal view of the world of symbols we exist in. They just happen to not share the same symbols of the mainstream.

Nice! And not only do they(we) not share the same symbols of the mainstream...
but in the fluidity of the ever-changing "sea/see" ... even "reoccuring" "symbols" hold differing neuances... and alltogether different meanings... as NEW visions unfold... around... within... and before us....

 

[shadow_fire]

I believe there either:

Lies,
Drug induced,
Rooted from a mental illness,
Some other factor such as sleep deprivation.

To put it in lamens terms, I don't believe any visions are divine or from a external deity.

This post isn't to be mean, if I were to get a vision, I would consult with a doctor immediately (unless I knew specifically what it was from already)

 

[YmirGF]

I believe there either:

Lies,
Drug induced,
Rooted from a mental illness,
Some other factor such as sleep deprivation.

To put it in lamens terms, I don't believe any visions are divine or from a external deity.

This post isn't to be mean, if I were to get a vision, I would consult with a doctor immediately (unless I knew specifically what it was from already)

Believe it or not I am inclined to agree, for the most part. This is specifically why I stated the difference between "realization" and "revelation". Imho, so-called "revelation" is the product of immature belief structures or the result of psychosis or a host of other reasons some of which you elucidated. Prophet Muhammed [pbuh] is a superb example here of what I am talking about. For example, any person who goes on at length about Hellfires is telling us more about their own mental state than they are about any meaningful aspect of reality. In reality, one should avoid such an individual like the plague they themselves are already consumed by.

 

[michel]

I have never had a"vision", and have never had prothetic dreams - but that doesn't mean I would discount the possibility of either.

I do know that when we are born, we have abilities and resource to "nature" which disappears from the moment we brought into this material world, and are taught materialism, and distrust of anything that cannot be proved.

I would back up that belief by pointing out that most animals have senses that we haven't - cats, dogs........all creatures, I dare say.

There was a storiy of a cat who is attracted to people who are on the point of death (in a residential home for the elderly and infirm); My wife's aunt knew that she was dying (that was very recently) although the doctors were upbeat about her condition. She tried saying her goodbyes, but all of us said she was going to be fine (which we believed)......now, of course, we feel guilty for having stopped her from talking about it.

I am open minded - I will never discount anything that has the remotest chance of being feasible.

 

[doppelganger]

In my experience talking to various mystics, I find that some mystics need "visions" (and thrive on them), while others don't need discrete or particular "visions" at all.

 

[Buttons*]

I believe there either:

Lies,
Drug induced,
Rooted from a mental illness,
Some other factor such as sleep deprivation.

I am inclined to feel this way too.... however, I don't see why mental illness, genius, dreams, insanity, meditation, drugs, and sleep deprivation can't be means to true visions. People are VERY capable of lying, so I never rule it out. I'm a skeptic as much as I am mystic.

I've heard it said that living without any outside influences is a way to live "under the influence." (Mystic turny around thingie...) I feel that if I can listen to or read someone's account of a vision, and am truly captured or come to a peaceful clarity in my heart, that it is something worth looking into. Not necessarily WHAT the person was doing or not doing at teh time of the vision, but the account itself.

Visions are in the mind. There's no other way to slice it. (Or there's an infinate way to slice it... depending on your outlook. And for some, maybe it's both!) If you research a bit, you'll find that many experiences concerning visions have been similar. Is there a rhyme and reason to it? Well, you'd have to think about that for yourself.

To put it in lamens terms, I don't believe any visions are divine or from a external deity.

probably not EXTERNAL......

This post isn't to be mean, if I were to get a vision, I would consult with a doctor immediately (unless I knew specifically what it was from already)

Lol, I don't blame you...

 

[doppelganger]

I believe there either:

Lies,
Drug induced,
Rooted from a mental illness,
Some other factor such as sleep deprivation.

Those can all induce or facilitate them, but deep meditation and other developed spiritual practices can induce them without any of the above with enough practice. Whether visions have a source outside the brain of the person experiencing the "vision", and if so the nature of this source, is inevitably a matter of personal interpretation.

 

[shadow_fire]

Believe it or not I am inclined to agree, for the most part. This is specifically why I stated the difference between "realization" and "revelation". Imho, so-called "revelation" is the product of immature belief structures or the result of psychosis or a host of other reasons some of which you elucidated. Prophet Muhammed [pbuh] is a superb example here of what I am talking about. For example, any person who goes on at length about Hellfires is telling us more about their own mental state than they are about any meaningful aspect of reality. In reality, one should avoid such an individual like the plague they themselves are already consumed by.

Exactly. The same can be said about people such as Louis Riel and Jesus. (Fortunately people knew of Louis's illness.)

 

[shadow_fire]

Those can all induce or facilitate them, but deep meditation and other developed spiritual practices can induce them without any of the above with enough practice. Whether visions have a source outside the brain of the person experiencing the "vision", and if so the nature of this source, is inevitably a matter of personal interpretation.

Thats exactly what I mean, its mental. I don't believe in an outside source.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Thats exactly what I mean, its mental. I don't believe in an outside source.

If you don't mind me asking, are you a Solipsist?

 

[blackout]

That's exactly what I mean, its mental. I don't believe in an outside source.

Just a thought.
If all things are of one source...
One God...
One Universe...
(whatever)
and we are indeed ONE with/in/of that source....
is there even then a such thing as "an outside source"?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I do not perceive a vision as something like most would, as a dream, waking thought, or such.

For me, a vision comes through deep meditation/thought. And then when a solution comes to whatever I have been pondering, sometimes quickly, sometimes after days of searching, that I consider a vision. Not necessarily a decision, as my description sounds like, but more of an answer.
Allthough I have seen visions of things to come, I do not consider them a "vision" as the future is not set in stone, and does change depending on the actions of the now.