• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Violent verses from Allah

Cooky

Veteran Member
Well those words still appear in the Roman Canon (Eucharist Prayer 1): "......a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a people set apart", if I remember correctly. However it is not quite clear who the people in question are: I like to think it embraces at least other Christians beside Catholics. Also it is in the context of the institution of the mass, so I don't think one can draw negative conclusions about the rest of the human race from it. It is I think an echo of the chosen people concept in the OT.

I hear you. Some view it coldly though.

I'm ready to move beyond that small "t" tradition, in which some view it that we are such through our mere 'membership'... In fact, I don't recall the Church ever making that specific, paradigmatic claim. I think there's still room to move forward in interpreting this 1 Peter 2:9. Even possibly extending it to non-Abrahamics without books.

...Perhaps it's only meant to remind us who we are *intended* to be, through properly working together with the Holy Spirit -the light of the world.

But just mere "membership" might not qualify us as such.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cooky

Veteran Member
...Because while Baptism mark's our 'membership'... It's the Holy Spirit that's embarking upon us that baptism is for in the first place.

Think about that for a minute.

We don't posess ownership of the Holy Spirit through Baptism... The Holy Spirit does as the Holy Spirit chooses.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
So if a bunch of flat earthers defeated round earthers in a fight you’d be impressed with the flat earth theory, how primitive.
Supremacy, in its absolute sense, involves dominance in reason as well as in the physical realm. Flat earth theory isn't consistent with ordinary astronomical observations.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
I've read the Quran and there are some verses in it that make me question the nature of Allah. For example :
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."

Scripture must be studied holistically and under the guidance of an enlightened teacher.

The primary teachings in all religions are only the following two.

1. Allah/God/Brahman is the Seer/Knower. But there is an erroneous notion that the body-mind-intellect (ego) is the seer/knower/doer. All actions take place under this erroneous notion and so in general generate pain.
2. All religions teach surrender in different names. Islam means surrender. Prappati-Sharangati is the key teaching in Hinduism. We also know of "Thy Will be done". So, the main task is to surrender one's ego -- the notion that I, this body-mind-intellect, is the seer/knower/doer.

Most devotees, however, either do not understand this simple thing or are not able to surrender. Rest of the scripture is only a collection of prescriptions for lessening the pain of living. While living, one will face all situations, scriptures guide us towards the easiest path. Please review all your objections in light of the aforesaid two points.

...
 
Last edited:

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Not so long ago, the Catholic Church used to refer to Catholics as "Gods chosen race"...

...We no longer say that. We criticize that now, calling it "triumphalism"... We've evolved - I guess in light of pope Francis' reaching out to the Amazonians, I see the good in wanting to spiritually evolve more.. All of us. :)

This is just me trying to put my feelings into words. I guess I feel like it would benefit the world if we all evolve together as humanity. And unfortunately, that requires work to be done, which is difficult to do -but I'm trying things. And it's like pulling teeth sometimes, and I hope I'm pulling the right ones. :);)
I'm not a Catholic or a Christian for that matter but I am a real fan of St. Francis of Assisi and by extension Pope Francis.

The essential message from the life of St. Francis is applicable today in spite of the vast gap in technology etc that separates us from the time when he lived.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
I'm not a Catholic or a Christian for that matter but I am a real fan of St. Francis of Assisi and by extension Pope Francis.

The essential message from the life of St. Francis is applicable today in spite of the vast gap in technology etc that separates us from the time when he lived.

I like that. :)
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
I fully agree with you.

I will add though that the common understanding or construct of the concept of "the Abrahamic religions" is not entirely accurate Islamically speaking.
God does not reveal institutionalized religions and the word commonly referred to as "religion" in translations of the Qur'an does not equate to the english word, more correctly it translates to "doctrine" (metaphysics, philosophy, morals and ethics basically).

The terms "Islam" and "Muslim" have a lot of meanings and applications in the Islamic understanding. Everything in the universe is in one sense of the meaning, "Muslim", as everything finite is absorbed into the infinite, everything is contained within the Unity of God.
I can't remember the specific ayat but the Qur'an mentions how the entire universe is in prostration to God, and furthermore the stars are in prostration to mankind (so there is a parallel there, in a way, this is mentioned various places including the opening of Surah Yusuf).

To be a Muslim, in it's most definitive meaning, is to seek union with the divine.

Regarding "People of the Book", well even according to the Qur'an, it cannot logically only be Judaism and Christianity (both of which were not founded by their patriarchal Prophets, Moses and Jesus, anyway).
The Qur'an states that there is not a town on earth in which a Prophet hasn't been sent, nor a language that God hasn't revealed itself, so this rules out exclusivity with the Middle East alone, as well as languages like Sanskrit, Hebrew or Arabic being sole 'languages of God'.

Great.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Since when did you become the judge of what is and is not Islam?
Heehee... I'm not, but it's still true.

Islam would consider @Theo102 's attempt to apply plurality to Allah using the Hebrew Divine name "Elohim" shirk.

Islam has its own set of Divine names in Arabic.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Heehee... I'm not, but it's still true.

Islam would consider @Theo102 's attempt to apply plurality to Allah using the Hebrew Divine name "Elohim" shirk.

Islam has its own set of Divine names in Arabic.
You are referring to the mainstream sects of Islam here.

Islam is not monolithic. Your post would make more sense if you either qualified the term Islam with “mainstream” or added the name of the Islamic sect you are referring to eg Ahl e hadeeth.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
You are referring to the mainstream sects of Islam here.

Islam is not monolithic. Your post would make more sense if you either qualified the term Islam with “mainstream” or added the name of the Islamic sect you are referring to eg Ahl e hadeeth.
I mean... it would be a good point, except, there are no Islamic sects that pluralize Allah, or adopt the Divine Name: Elohim.

Find one.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I mean... it would be a good point, except, there are no Islamic sects that pluralize Allah, or adopt the Divine Name: Elohim.

Find one.
Well I suppose we are assuming @Theo102 and @ClimbingTheLadder are not self identifying as Muslim, I leave them to clarify that.

Then there is the thread from @hanif
Allah Is Same As Elohim

Or from the Muslim website answering Christianity; “Did you know that Elohim is Allah“
Did you know that it is not ELOH-IM (Elohim)? It's ALLAH!
 

ClimbingTheLadder

Up and Down again
I mean... it would be a good point, except, there are no Islamic sects that pluralize Allah, or adopt the Divine Name: Elohim.

Find one.

Well technically Islam doesn't even have a name for God but that is technically.

If you mean "the creator and sustainer of all things" when you say the word "Elohim" then you do indeed mean the same thing.
If not, then not.
 

ClimbingTheLadder

Up and Down again
Islam would consider @Theo102 's attempt to apply plurality to Allah using the Hebrew Divine name "Elohim" shirk.

Not really, Elohim for all intents and purposes, would be closer to "Rabb" in Arabic, which is 'lord' or 'deity' in the divine sense.
You can cross-language all you want as long as you understand the definitions and use them correctly.

But then in your sentence I also see the tendency (whether correct or not) of only transliterating certain words.

For instance, common translations may say "Allah created" (which would not really be translation but a transliteration), yet a more literal translation would be "God created", but the most word-for-word translation would be "The God created".
 
Top