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Featured Violence on Violence

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Jun 2, 2020.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    How does violence against violence solve a problem?
     
  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
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    Complicated.....it depends upon who, when, where, & how.
    The threat of business & home owner violence against looters
    & vandals keeps rural areas safe (IMO). But urban dwellers
    are different, so malefactors know they have freer reign.
    Would violent defense of one's stores work? I suspect so.
    But police violence is different....there's a balance between
    quelling the rioters vs inspiring the rioters to be even more so.

    In the news....
    Sheriff Judd extends curfew, warns rioters that residents are armed

    The most peaceful & friendly protest I've ever been to was the
    "Brass Roots Rally" in Lansing. Thousands of armed people
    being really calm. I even took my 2 young kids there.
     
  3. dybmh

    dybmh Just a blade of grass
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    It doesn't; however the argument in favor is below:

    "Looting is extremely dangerous to the rich (and most white people) because it reveals, with an immediacy that has to be moralized away, that the idea of private property is just that: an idea, a tenuous and contingent structure of consent, backed up by the lethal force of the state. When rioters take territory and loot, they are revealing precisely how, in a space without cops, property relations can be destroyed and things can be had for free.

    Source: In Defense of Looting (emphasis mine)

    edit: I put the link in a spoiler due to its controversial nature.
     
    #3 dybmh, Jun 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  4. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

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    It doesnt, its a paradox. Fead the hero, and you feed the beast. Good and evil. Gog and Magog.
     
  5. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't.
     
  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
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    Hmmm.....an amazingly criminal view.
    It only works when they prey on the weak.
    It wouldn't work well at my business.
    Both son & I would offer compelling arguments to respect property rights.
     
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  7. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree with anyone simply saying "it doesn't." This isn't accurate or representative of some circumstances we actually experience in reality at all.

    When I was a kid I was bullied. There was a set of kids who would get off the bus at my stop and call me names, push me, throw things at me, etc. Well, one day, they kept egging one of them on to fight me, but he was a little guy, and I was larger, and the little guy didn't want to get involved, and neither did I, so nothing happened. Well, this little guy had a friend who felt that his inability to fight me was some kind of insult to their friendship, so he decided to fight me himself the next day. I wanted no part of it, but damned if I was just going to take the licks and crawl off somewhere to lick my wounds later. So I fought back. At one point he had me down on my back and was coming at me, and I kicked up off the ground and hit him hard in the chest and he bowled over. In another moment I had a handful of his hair a was beating on his head repeatedly. The fight dispersed when a neighbor came out from their house and scared all the others off. The kid went around telling everyone how he "won" the fight. But I obviously knew better - I had gotten some good, solid violence of my own in there and kept it fairly even, and he knew it. Which is why he never tried it again - and indeed stopped bullying me altogether. They all did.

    Violence begets violence. Sometimes you have show someone that if they are willing to approach you with violence, then you are taking that as license to do the same. Just look at any interaction of violence in the animal kingdom. Does one of the animals EVER approach the situation in "peaceful protest?" Not that I know of or have seen. Many seem to think we are so much different - but our base understanding and mentality remains there, and understands that when someone reacts to our violence with more in return than we care to take, the best course is to back down. You can get people to back down. You can. To say "it doesn't work" is ridiculous, foolish even.
     
    #7 A Vestigial Mote, Jun 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
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  8. dybmh

    dybmh Just a blade of grass
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    Seditious. Rebellious. Revolutionary... and yeah criminal.
     
  9. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    One thing I feel should be clarified about my earlier reply is that violence followed up by completely unrelated violence is just plain dumb. For example, looting someone's (or many someones') shop(s) in response to a member of your community being killed by police comes with a hefty disconnect. You're not just punishing the cops involved (or you're not punishing them at all), in other words - who are the ones you actually desire to affect. You're instead taking your frustration out on someone or something else entirely - which is decidedly not productive.
     
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  10. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Whilst in no way condoning violence now, and whilst also suggesting the answer is almost never...

    I could name occassions when violence has 'solved' issues.
     
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  11. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    Now this hurt my feelings :(

    :D

    Well, actually violence brings terror, and if we respond with violence we help build the terror. Who wants to live with terror? We should have ''counter-action''. ;)
     
    #11 syo, Jun 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
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    Rebellion & revolution suggest objectives political rather than mere thievery.
     
  13. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Phht...justice is also a social construct.
     
  14. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    and Moses put forth....
    an eye for an eye....a tooth for a tooth

    if you know this going into the situation
    you might not raise your hand
    in the first place
     
  15. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm. Reminds me of privateers, the legal, patriotic pirates.
     
  16. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    an eye for an eye?
     
  17. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Enforcement prevents violence. Unfortunately, enforcement has to escalate in response to violence.

    Ideally, the enforcement escalates as an appropriate response to the violence. Where it doesn't, then enforcement or inappropriate escalation leads to more violence. The trick is to use the proper amount of enforcement in response to the violence.
     
  18. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    black belt here!

    bravo!

    one step up.....have you tried turning the other cheek?

    I might post as an op
    look for it
     
  19. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    Eventually one wins or both get tired and settle. Its the same with pacifism its a long term play. If you are violent or pacifist in the short term nothing gets accomplished you have to go long term.
     
  20. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    The use of the Old Testament by modern society scares me actually.
     
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