Violence in the Bible; how is it justified?

[1213]

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If you are a Christian or a Jew, are you of the opinion that Yahweh is a genocidal maniac? I’m guessing not. So why not? How is the violence of Yahweh justified? How is the violence of the Israel armies of the old justified? How can Yahweh claim to have a monopoly on morality, with a track record such as His?

I believe God has given life. Because of that I think He has the right to decide how long life He gives. If He would think that is is good that I live only for example 20 years, I don't think I would have anything to complain, because I have not done anything to have even that. There simply is no good reason why God should give more than what He gives. (And no, humans don't give life, they give birth, which is not the same).

However, God has promised to give eternal life for righteous and others have death. I think that is very nice, because I don't think He would have to do so. Even short life would be a great gift.

By what the Bible tells, death is for evil unrighteous people. Would you think it is good, if God would let evil to continue for ever and make this life eternal suffering for all? I don't think it would be good, that is why I can accept that God doesn't let all live eternally.

 

[an anarchist]

This involved originally giving the land to the people and getting rid of those who were living there,

Can we agree at least that God ordered wholesale genocide? We can agree to disagree on whether this genocide was moral or not. Though, I don’t think it’s justified to murder all of the children on the Canaanites.

 

[an anarchist]

This would depend on your perception or belief. If you believe the Bible the inerrant word of God and actual history that truly took place, then your question is valid.

The flavor of Christianity I grew up around was one that believes in the Bible to be taken 100% literally because it’s the inerrant word of God

 

[firedragon]

The flavor of Christianity I grew up around was one that believes in the Bible to be taken 100% literally because it’s the inerrant word of God

I give you that. I am talking about now or today. You dont believe that anymore. That is why you should typically take the route I gave you above. Because you question about God being that is now invalid since you dont believe in all of this in the Bible anymore. Unless you have an ultimate motivation which you have not stated in your OP.

Hope you understand.

 

[PearlSeeker]

The Bible and violence - Wikipedia
There was a question I was always afraid to think on when I was a Christian. The violence of Yahweh and the violence He commanded, how was it not immoral? My pastor would say with pride, “Our God is a war god!” He explained that if the Israelites didn’t kill all the babies, the babies would grow up and fight the Israelites. So of course they couldn’t leave babies alive when they conquered. He then would talk about how immoral these other nations were, how they would light their kids on fire and stuff, so they had it God’s mighty justice coming. That’s how it was explained to me in adolescence, and I didn’t let myself ponder it any further. I was honestly scared to, because I knew it would make me question whether the God I served was moral or not.
Now I’m not a Christian, I am not afraid to come to the conclusion that the Yahweh of the Old Testament is an immoral murderer. Such a charge to lay against the one I used to serve so earnestly.
If you are a Christian or a Jew, are you of the opinion that Yahweh is a genocidal maniac? I’m guessing not. So why not? How is the violence of Yahweh justified? How is the violence of the Israel armies of the old justified? How can Yahweh claim to have a monopoly on morality, with a track record such as His?

I was told that I have to read this kind of stories in the Bible as inner battle with sin but IMO this doesn't justify anything. I think the story must be a myth.

 

[an anarchist]

God is the Creator, Judge, All Knowing who demonstrated His love for us by sending His Son to pay the price of eternal damnation for His creation. So any time I hear these kind of questions and then the answers that follow from people it makes me fear for some that actually stand in judgement of God, seems there is no fear of God or thought that maybe since we have very limited understanding of things, are all less than 100 years old, our perspective flawed, our judgement is clouded and seems most have no self knowledge and self deceived. Have you ever thought maybe I should ask for understanding instead of listening to demonic influences that hate God, as the Bible describes in Ephesians 2? That according to the Scriptures everyone will stand before God, give an account for our words, actions, motives, secrets we want to take to the grave, all these things will be exposed according to the Bible. According to Scripture nothing will be hidden, everyone will get that opportunity to present their case and Scripture says there will be weeping and leashing of teeth. As for me, I will continue to worship, glorify the King who loved me and gave His life for me, give Him the Glory due Him, He is Holy, Holy, Holy worthy of all my praise!

Hmm.
Well, I’m letting go of the fear of God. Suppose He isn’t real.
Let’s say you were rereading the Bible, but let’s say instead of Yahweh it was Cthulhu (who you don’t believe in). Would you view Cthulhu’s actions as moral, if they were identical to Yahweh’s supposed actions?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Well, I’m letting go of the fear of God.

What is your definition of the fear of God?

 

[firedragon]

Hmm.
Well, I’m letting go of the fear of God. Suppose He isn’t real.
Let’s say you were rereading the Bible, but let’s say instead of Yahweh it was Cthulhu (who you don’t believe in). Would you view Cthulhu’s actions as moral, if they were identical to Yahweh’s supposed actions?

Isn't Chulhu claimed to be fiction? Correct me if I am wrong.

If you wish to equate both, the God of the Bible and Chulhu (If this writer claimed its fiction), you should provide a Bible verse that claims Hashem is pure fiction. Otherwise its a false analogy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's known that: thought begets word begets deed

If one lacks that filter thing people tend to have that prevents them from saying their initial thoughts.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Isn't Chulhu claimed to be fiction? Correct me if I am wrong.

If you wish to equate both, the God of the Bible and Chulhu (If this writer claimed its fiction), you should provide a Bible verse that claims Hashem is pure fiction. Otherwise its a false analogy.

By that standard you should provide a passage from the Cthulu mythos claiming the Great Old Ones are pure fiction.

 

[MikeF]

By that standard you should provide a passage from the Cthulu mythos claiming the Great Old Ones are pure fiction.

IMO


I'm with @firedragon on this one. @Xavier Graham SA would have made a better analogy if he referenced an imagined entity that some group of people believed was real, perhaps Odin or Tomgosoak, for example, instead of fictional character in a novel.

 

[Sheldon]

The way it was explained to me is that God knew what the children would grow up to do and sentenced them to death because of it.

So much for free will, and murdering innocent babies being immoral. Oddly though the female prisoners who were virgins were salvageable, and sex trafficked as booty.

Sometimes words genuinely fail me.

 

[74x12]

The Bible and violence - Wikipedia
There was a question I was always afraid to think on when I was a Christian. The violence of Yahweh and the violence He commanded, how was it not immoral? My pastor would say with pride, “Our God is a war god!” He explained that if the Israelites didn’t kill all the babies, the babies would grow up and fight the Israelites. So of course they couldn’t leave babies alive when they conquered. He then would talk about how immoral these other nations were, how they would light their kids on fire and stuff, so they had it God’s mighty justice coming. That’s how it was explained to me in adolescence, and I didn’t let myself ponder it any further. I was honestly scared to, because I knew it would make me question whether the God I served was moral or not.
Now I’m not a Christian, I am not afraid to come to the conclusion that the Yahweh of the Old Testament is an immoral murderer. Such a charge to lay against the one I used to serve so earnestly.
If you are a Christian or a Jew, are you of the opinion that Yahweh is a genocidal maniac? I’m guessing not. So why not? How is the violence of Yahweh justified? How is the violence of the Israel armies of the old justified? How can Yahweh claim to have a monopoly on morality, with a track record such as His?

God has to sign off on everyone's death even the smallest bird that dies. Jesus said not one sparrow falls to the grown without God. So let's cut through the nonsense and get to the ultimate question. Why are we mortal? Because God has something else he's doing. Death is the doorway; it's not the end.

Babies are blessed to die without sin. Not that I'm excusing murderers who do kill babies. They're trying to play God and they aren't. So it's really blasphemy to murder anyone.

But God himself cannot be a murderer. He is the source the giver of all life. Jesus said I am the resurrection and the life, whoever believes in me, though he were dead yet shall he live.

 

[InChrist]

So much for free will, and murdering innocent babies being immoral. Oddly though the female prisoners who were virgins were salvageable, and sex trafficked as booty.

Sometimes words genuinely fail me.

No, the Canaanite women were not taken or sex trafficked as booty...

“The women were killed because they participated in the violence, child sacrifices, bestiality, and sexual immorality just as much as the men did. The women would often fight in battles and participate with the men in the cutting off of their enemies’ heads and hands. They would often seduce men from other villages so that their men could kill them (Judg. 16:4-22). They also willingly offered their own children as a burnt sacrifice. The idea that women are more righteous or less sinful is a modern-day myth.”

The Extermination of the Canaanites

 

[Shadow Wolf]

IMO


I'm with @firedragon on this one. @Xavier Graham SA would have made a better analogy if he referenced an imagined entity that some group of people believed was real, perhaps Odin or Tomgosoak, for example, instead of fictional character in a novel.

Abraham's God is just as much an imagined entity that people believe is real. As Lud and Quetzalcoatl. Of course the Bible won't say it's not real. The Bhagavad Gita is no different. Sauron or Jehovah, they're both fictional. Yahweh or Yog Sogoth, they're all as fictional as Worf and Data from Star Trek.

 

[Sheldon]

No, the Canaanite women were not taken or sex trafficked as booty...

My apologies I was referring to the Amalekites. The biblical deity was so relentlessly and indiscriminately sadistic and barbaric, I sometimes lose track.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The Bible and violence - Wikipedia
There was a question I was always afraid to think on when I was a Christian. The violence of Yahweh and the violence He commanded, how was it not immoral? My pastor would say with pride, “Our God is a war god!” He explained that if the Israelites didn’t kill all the babies, the babies would grow up and fight the Israelites. So of course they couldn’t leave babies alive when they conquered. He then would talk about how immoral these other nations were, how they would light their kids on fire and stuff, so they had it God’s mighty justice coming. That’s how it was explained to me in adolescence, and I didn’t let myself ponder it any further. I was honestly scared to, because I knew it would make me question whether the God I served was moral or not.
Now I’m not a Christian, I am not afraid to come to the conclusion that the Yahweh of the Old Testament is an immoral murderer. Such a charge to lay against the one I used to serve so earnestly.
If you are a Christian or a Jew, are you of the opinion that Yahweh is a genocidal maniac? I’m guessing not. So why not? How is the violence of Yahweh justified? How is the violence of the Israel armies of the old justified? How can Yahweh claim to have a monopoly on morality, with a track record such as His?

The violence in the Bible cannot be justified because the Christian god has proven himself to be a sadistic, genocidal, psychopathic, barbaric maniac who deliberately creates evil, disasters, and calamities (Isaiah 45:7) in order to inflict immeasurable pain, suffering, and devastation on humanity. If that isn't enough to make your stomach turn, then you should also know that this god intentionally creates some people to be wicked (Proverbs 16:4). As I pointed out in another thread, if the Bible is accurate, then mankind, Lucifer, and the other angels are nothing more than his playthings that he cruelly manipulates and controls for his own personal pleasure.

 

[MikeF]

Abraham's God is just as much an imagined entity that people believe is real. As Lud and Quetzalcoatl. Of course the Bible won't say it's not real. The Bhagavad Gita is no different. Sauron or Jehovah, they're both fictional. Yahweh or Yog Sogoth, they're all as fictional as Worf and Data from Star Trek.

IMO


I get that, and don't disagree. However, Worf does not have worshipers. Apples and organges are both fruits, but an analogy about apples would use macintosh and gala for example, not macintosh and a naval orange.

Remember the analogy was directed at someone who believes in the entity depicted in the Bible. The critique of that analogy was that it is not just any fictional character to have one imagine doing something immoral, but another imagined entity that is actually believed in by other people than oneself, and realize that one would probably be less inclined to rationalize the behavior of this other entity, and hopefully get that person to realize their own rationalizations of their entity in a new light.

Not that it would necessarily make a difference to the intended recipient either way, it would just make a stronger analogy and less easy to dismiss out-of-hand.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

My apologies I was referring to the Amalekites. The biblical deity was so relentlessly and indiscriminately sadistic and barbaric, I sometimes lose track.

According to the Bible, this god ordered his followers to massacre the Amalekites and wipe them off the face of the earth, killing every man, woman, child, and infant and slaughtering all of their animals (Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2; Deuteronomy 25:17).

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, the Canaanite women were not taken or sex trafficked as booty...

“The women were killed because they participated in the violence, child sacrifices, bestiality, and sexual immorality just as much as the men did. The women would often fight in battles and participate with the men in the cutting off of their enemies’ heads and hands. They would often seduce men from other villages so that their men could kill them (Judg. 16:4-22). They also willingly offered their own children as a burnt sacrifice. The idea that women are more righteous or less sinful is a modern-day myth.”

The Extermination of the Canaanites

Do you realize that those are likely just stories told so that the invaders could justify their genocide?

"Why did you kill that innocent man?"

"Well, well . . . he was eating babies! Yes, yes! That is what he was doing. Eating babies. And with ketchup!!"