Violence in the Bible; how is it justified?

[Brickjectivity]

If you are a Christian or a Jew, are you of the opinion that Yahweh is a genocidal maniac? I’m guessing not. So why not?

Laws take precedence over interpretations. When a law says "You must not kill" it is a law, not a story. That is why. The ten commandments are the center of all other laws, and of these the most important (to a Christian) are to love God and to love your neighbor. Also Christians are taught from childhood about spiritual death. We can interpolate back in time that this probably is an early Jewish concept that applies to these stories of genocide, since killing is not allowed.

 

[Brian2]

And the good news is that this is just another example of the Bible being wrong. The Canaanites were not wiped out. The left a lot of survivors whatever happened to them:

Ancient DNA solves mystery of the Canaanites, reveals the biblical people's fate | National Post

No the Bible is not wrong, it tell us that the Canaanites were not wiped out.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No the Bible is not wrong, it tell us that the Canaanites were not wiped out.

Does it? I t may tell both stories. Of course we all know that the Bible is wrong in Genesis and Exodus, Job, just to name a few.

 

[Brian2]

That's what genocidal dictators, abusive parents and spouses, and tons of criminals all say.

Courts do look at things from their pov in sentencing I think.
Sometimes courts sentence to death or life in prison. That is OK because courts are courts and delve out justice.
God is the judge of everyone in reality and it is His job to do the delving out of justice.
In a world where people don't want God to be the judge, the judge is called evil for doing His job.

 

[Brian2]

Does it? I t may tell both stories. Of course we all know that the Bible is wrong in Genesis and Exodus, Job, just to name a few.

It was not wrong when it told us what happened to the Canaanites.

 

[Brian2]

It's okay then if God kills innocent women and children? Then killing innocents or anyone is not the problem? The only problem being not seeing God's pov and complying accordingly?

Interesting.

It would be a problem if we were the ones murdering others. The real problem is not recognising God for whom He is.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It was not wrong when it told us what happened to the Canaanites.

It is too late at night. Perhaps tomorrow. But if the Bible ever says that they were all killed it is wrong. Even if it said the opposite elsewhere.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It would be a problem if we were the ones murdering others. The real problem is not recognising God for whom He is.

An immoral thug that orders the deaths of others?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

And the good news is that this is just another example of the Bible being wrong. The Canaanites were not wiped out. The left a lot of survivors whatever happened to them:

Ancient DNA solves mystery of the Canaanites, reveals the biblical people's fate | National Post

Just FYI, the Hebrew Tanakh never claims that they were whipped out. Also, Jewish sources also don't claim that they neded to be wiped. The culture of Avodah Zara in a particular set of regions in this part of the Middle East was what was required to end. According to the Hebrew Tanakh, several groups of Canaanites continued to exist "biologically" one in particullar joined Am Yisrael and the others dispered at some point. Yet, the culture of Avodah Zara they had ceased in this region over time.

Currently, in the only people in this region who claim to be Canaates are Muslims who don't do Avodah Zara.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

The Bible and violence - Wikipedia
There was a question I was always afraid to think on when I was a Christian. The violence of Yahweh and the violence He commanded, how was it not immoral? My pastor would say with pride, “Our God is a war god!” He explained that if the Israelites didn’t kill all the babies, the babies would grow up and fight the Israelites. So of course they couldn’t leave babies alive when they conquered. He then would talk about how immoral these other nations were, how they would light their kids on fire and stuff, so they had it God’s mighty justice coming. That’s how it was explained to me in adolescence, and I didn’t let myself ponder it any further. I was honestly scared to, because I knew it would make me question whether the God I served was moral or not.
Now I’m not a Christian, I am not afraid to come to the conclusion that the Yahweh of the Old Testament is an immoral murderer. Such a charge to lay against the one I used to serve so earnestly.
If you are a Christian or a Jew, are you of the opinion that Yahweh is a genocidal maniac? I’m guessing not. So why not? How is the violence of Yahweh justified? How is the violence of the Israel armies of the old justified? How can Yahweh claim to have a monopoly on morality, with a track record such as His?

If you don't mind me asking, is the position of the OP that such an entity exists or that it doesn't?

 

[Nimos]

The Bible and violence - Wikipedia
There was a question I was always afraid to think on when I was a Christian. The violence of Yahweh and the violence He commanded, how was it not immoral? My pastor would say with pride, “Our God is a war god!” He explained that if the Israelites didn’t kill all the babies, the babies would grow up and fight the Israelites. So of course they couldn’t leave babies alive when they conquered. He then would talk about how immoral these other nations were, how they would light their kids on fire and stuff, so they had it God’s mighty justice coming. That’s how it was explained to me in adolescence, and I didn’t let myself ponder it any further. I was honestly scared to, because I knew it would make me question whether the God I served was moral or not.
Now I’m not a Christian, I am not afraid to come to the conclusion that the Yahweh of the Old Testament is an immoral murderer. Such a charge to lay against the one I used to serve so earnestly.
If you are a Christian or a Jew, are you of the opinion that Yahweh is a genocidal maniac? I’m guessing not. So why not? How is the violence of Yahweh justified? How is the violence of the Israel armies of the old justified? How can Yahweh claim to have a monopoly on morality, with a track record such as His?

Personally I think its very difficult to justify some of the things God does.

But as @Viker also said, it was a different time. They clearly didn't see the world or morality as we do today.

And I think it makes sense why they needed a God that could kill and judge people as he did. Because they obviously needed to portrait him as powerful, but also one you should fear or have respect for. They didn't have a functional justice system back then, where they could easily send out the police with dogs, track DNA etc. to solve crimes.

So having a God that could punish you for doing wrong things even after dead or one you would have to be judge by at some point, was probably a very effective way of handling crimes and reduce them. But had God not been like this, maybe people wouldn't have respected him.

Another thing is, that I think a lot of the confusion when talking about these things is because God was originally the God of that specific group of people. And if you read the stuff in that context, it doesn't make God a moral being, but it does explain why the Israelites would see God as being on their side and a just God, because he wanted to help them.

And if some of those people that God punish did something bad to the Israelites, getting back at them would probably be seen as perfectly fine.

 

[ChristineM]

Do you think it was God who raised the first sword against a fellow man?

As far as i am aware the bible says that god gave the instructions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Courts do look at things from their pov in sentencing I think.
Sometimes courts sentence to death or life in prison. That is OK because courts are courts and delve out justice.
God is the judge of everyone in reality and it is His job to do the delving out of justice.
In a world where people don't want God to be the judge, the judge is called evil for doing His job.

He killed Lot's wife for looking back. That's beyond heinous and unreasonable. When courts sentence someone to death or life in prison it's for murder. Jehovah is recorded demanding death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

 

[Brian2]

An immoral thug that orders the deaths of others?

Going by what the Biblical story says, He is the God who created the universe and chose Abraham and his descendants to be His chosen people and He would be their God and King. As God He has the right and authority to judge anyone justly and as King He has the role of protecting His people in the land He gave them. This involved originally giving the land to the people and getting rid of those who were living there, who were being judged by God also for things they were doing.
But if you want to see the story as wrong and judge God as if He is a man who has no authority that is your concern.
If a man King had freed the Jews from Egypt and was looking for a place for them to settle it would be just a part of what he would have to do, to attack and kill the people in Canaan so that his people could settle there.
But He is not a man, He is God in the story and so has the right to judge the Canaanites for their actions.
That God was judging Canaan is seen in the story of the Patriarchs in which God gave the land of Canaan to Abraham's descendants but said they would have to wait for it as the Canaanites were not at that time as evil as they would become. God judged them at a time when their deeds were worthy of that judgement.
So you judge God according to your unbelief in the story and I judge God according to my belief in the story.

 

[Brian2]

He killed Lot's wife for looking back. That's beyond heinous and unreasonable. When courts sentence someone to death or life in prison it's for murder. Jehovah is recorded demanding death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

The story of Lot's wife sounds unreasonable but we are not given the full details of why she was killed except for the warning of the angel about stopping or turning back.
The story of the stick gatherers being stoned sounds unreasonable for such a small act but it seems to have been done as an example that God was serious about the law and was not going to just let people do whatever they wanted without consequences. It was death or people would have started to do anything they wanted, knowing that they could disobey the law without consequences.

 

[stvdv]

He killed Lot's wife for looking back. That's beyond heinous and unreasonable. When courts sentence someone to death or life in prison it's for murder.

Some thoughts that popped up about Lot's story

The Book of Genesis describes how she became a pillar of salt after she looked back at Sodom

Sodom got this name, and not for being virtuous. Clearly murder was something that happened in Sodom. I can't know nor claim that Lot's wife never committed murder? If so then God's action makes sense

The Judge gave her a free path under 1 condition:
"Don't you look back"
She looked back. Judge kept His Word. That's all

It's known that: thought begets word begets deed

A good judge knows this, and it's consequences
The Omniscient Judge, I don't doubt, knows it. So, as I see it, the judge just kept his word and gave us a good lesson with this story

If a judge has proof that a rapist will rape within 24 hours after release, will he set him free? I hope not

Divine stories are not meant to be taken literal always. Some are meant symbolic, some are not. God gave us common sense, power of discrimination and much more to interpret His Word

Just my thoughts about Lot's wife's story
I won't debate about it, just to share
Meaning: take it or leave it

Solid story to me

 

[stvdv]

It would be a problem if we were the ones murdering others

Many people miss that point made in the Bible. Being totally focused on finding stones to throw with, they even can't see the pearls there for free

I am interested finding the pearls in the Scriptures

 

[stvdv]

It would be a problem if we were the ones murdering others

The real problem is not recognising God for whom He is.

Very true indeed

It's really so simple to me
1)God is defined as infallible, Just, Omniscient
2)Humans are known to be inconsistent
3)It's Humans writing about God
4)There is inconsistency

Conclusion: I see human inconsistencies only,

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Very true indeed

It's really so simple to me
1)God is defined as infallible, Just, Omniscient
2)Humans are known to be inconsistent
3)It's Humans writing about God
4)There is inconsistency

Conclusion: I see human inconsistencies only,

Well, in the end, that is why I in practice don't believe in God. I don't know which inconsistency I should favor over another.

 

[Clara Tea]

VIOLENCE IN THE BIBLE, HOW IS IT JUSTIFIED?

The Bible and violence - Wikipedia
There was a question I was always afraid to think on when I was a Christian. The violence of Yahweh and the violence He commanded, how was it not immoral? My pastor would say with pride, “Our God is a war god!” He explained that if the Israelites didn’t kill all the babies, the babies would grow up and fight the Israelites. So of course they couldn’t leave babies alive when they conquered. He then would talk about how immoral these other nations were, how they would light their kids on fire and stuff, so they had it God’s mighty justice coming. That’s how it was explained to me in adolescence, and I didn’t let myself ponder it any further. I was honestly scared to, because I knew it would make me question whether the God I served was moral or not.
Now I’m not a Christian, I am not afraid to come to the conclusion that the Yahweh of the Old Testament is an immoral murderer. Such a charge to lay against the one I used to serve so earnestly.
If you are a Christian or a Jew, are you of the opinion that Yahweh is a genocidal maniac? I’m guessing not. So why not? How is the violence of Yahweh justified? How is the violence of the Israel armies of the old justified? How can Yahweh claim to have a monopoly on morality, with a track record such as His?

OPINION OF CLARA TEA:

We don't dare ask how the loving God's violence is justified, or the loving God will burn us for all eternity in the fires of hell, along with tortures. Our inability to ask, coupled with our requirement to say that He is loving, keeps God-fearing Christians in their place. It is every Christian's heartfelt wish to sit by God in heaven. God kicked Satan (the perfect angel) out of heaven. So, heaven isn't a place where we can stay forever.

Did Jesus give His life willingly? Not according to Jesus, who asked God "why hath thou foresaken me."

The story of Passover isn't about Jews killing babies. Rather, it is about the Jews saying that they must be released or God will kill their first born sons.

How is this possible? I think it was the dietary rules of Judaism that saved the Jews. I am guessing that the first born sons of Egyptians were given a delicacy (shell fish). But, during certain times of the year (during a red tide), shellfish are poisonous. Orthodox Jewish law won't allow them to eat pork or shellfish. So, they likely knew that Egyptian kids would die while Jewish kids would not. Essentially, the Egyptians killed their own sons (unwittingly).

God did "supposedly" tell the Jews to slaughter the Caananites and take their land. I wonder if that really happened, or if someone just said that God told them to do so, then they used that as an excuse? I can imagine some Hebrew general saying to himself that the land of milk and honey would make an ideal spot to settle, and all they have to do is tell everyone that God told them to take it. If so, God is innocent, and some lying general is guilty.