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Featured Violence in the Bible; how is it justified?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Xavier Graham, Apr 28, 2022.

  1. Xavier Graham

    Xavier Graham Your local anarchist. God is Love is Love is Love

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    The Bible and violence - Wikipedia
    There was a question I was always afraid to think on when I was a Christian. The violence of Yahweh and the violence He commanded, how was it not immoral? My pastor would say with pride, “Our God is a war god!” He explained that if the Israelites didn’t kill all the babies, the babies would grow up and fight the Israelites. So of course they couldn’t leave babies alive when they conquered. He then would talk about how immoral these other nations were, how they would light their kids on fire and stuff, so they had it God’s mighty justice coming. That’s how it was explained to me in adolescence, and I didn’t let myself ponder it any further. I was honestly scared to, because I knew it would make me question whether the God I served was moral or not.
    Now I’m not a Christian, I am not afraid to come to the conclusion that the Yahweh of the Old Testament is an immoral murderer. Such a charge to lay against the one I used to serve so earnestly.
    If you are a Christian or a Jew, are you of the opinion that Yahweh is a genocidal maniac? I’m guessing not. So why not? How is the violence of Yahweh justified? How is the violence of the Israel armies of the old justified? How can Yahweh claim to have a monopoly on morality, with a track record such as His?
     
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  2. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    Variant of moral relativism. It's okay if X does if it's done for/because A. And A commands it! But if Y does it especially because of their (fake) D and especially against X, it's terrible and abominable!

    Apparently, the writers of the Bible thought this way. It was the world they lived in. A world with a broken moral compass (not much has changed).

    Morality isn't following commands or obeying orders. That's for sure.
     
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  3. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    When a book doesn't exist first.

    Biological humans do who speak to each other first.

    Family. Who gave forgotten natural human behaviour.

    No civilisation.
    No trade for greed.
    No status as equal life was natural human balanced family hierarchy first.

    Then star fall returns from destroying dinosaur life.

    Irradiated human brain. But phenomena is not mass heavens. So only some humans brain chemistry changed. What phenomena meant.

    Men brothers alike agreed. First human bully tactic. Threat to spiritual innocent meek non destructive family. If you don't do what I say we'll murder you or beat you into submission.

    Humans historic life mind change warning.

    The real human story.

    Greedy rich man trader Inventor scientist destroyer man agreement.

    Who has used that same Ill murder you tactic ever since.

    Thinks it's his rights as organised greed lifestyle yet it won't save him from a murderous earth God heavens or cosmic attack.

    As actually he's not special. As inventor designer man of gods sciences.

    He wrote an attacked life assessment about why killed of human DNA genesis occurred. As human babies born by human sex inherit human life.

    Baby life eradicated out of genetics by sciences of earth God.

    How a medical healers summation versus human science was written. Science not human logic gave a self destructive answer.

    It was summarised and then publically agreed ....science by human law outlawed...on a shut don't read it teaching applied. As you don't know the meanings.

    As human law is a legal situation who used it as evidence against human science Satanists.

    Were told to never read from it again yet it doesn't stop your interpretations of evil claiming it holy.

    Book was shut and a human law oath to tell the human truth so help me God your real answer.

    Ignored.

    As humans enjoy the provocation it induces in thought as science by thesis is destructive.
     
  4. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    The way it was explained to me is that God knew what the children would grow up to do and sentenced them to death because of it.
     
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  5. NArdas

    NArdas Member

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    Whether they want to admit it or not the real ruler of this world is the Beast (which is us), they just pretend it isn't to make themselves feel better about it all. If we nuked Moscow Russia right now who would complain? Certainly no one certainly in the West I imagine with their influence machines going full bore. You know many Native American and many other tribes around the world appealed to unpleasant Spirits when it came to war to win it, why not throw your lot in now to win this confrontation?
     
  6. Ella S.

    Ella S. Vulcan

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    Had an ethical debate on here awhile ago that was so illogical that it was the straw to break the camel's back for me and sent me off the site for a good chunk of time.

    My interlocutor was essentially arguing that none of us should take the actions that we think are ethical because we're essentially forcing our own moral judgments on the world.

    So why lambast the morality of the ancient tribes? All you're doing is forcing your morality upon them, which makes you basically Stalin. /s
     
    #6 Ella S., Apr 28, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2022
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  7. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    Not sure if you meant me?

    I'm just pointing out that related passages in the Bible have little or nothing to do with morality. Obedience and honor are different things.

    Personally, I wasn't there to verify these accounts and have suspected they aren't accurate any way.
     
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  8. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    God was the King in Israel and made the tough decisions that Kings need to make to keep their land and people safe.
    God is the judge of the whole earth and at times judges nations as deserving of annihilation.
    You look at the Bible from the position of no faith now and so all you see is the violence and automatically judge God without giving Him the benefit of the doubt and trying to see things from His pov in what He was doing at the time.
     
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  9. Ella S.

    Ella S. Vulcan

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    To the ancient Mesopotamians, they were created by the gods with a singular purpose in mind; to be their slaves and tend to their garden.

    To the ancients, the morality for humans centered around obedience to the gods. That was considered to be their natural place in the world. Ancient Israelite and Judaite religions were just two of many with this perspective at the time. It was a very common concept in the region during (and before) that period.

    Do I think it's ethical? No, absolutely not. However, they wouldn't agree with your perspective on morality and would see your arguments as unnatural hubris, a form of spiritual disease. This argument won't hold up to most people who don't believe in their gods or their sins, obviously.
     
  10. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    It's okay then if God kills innocent women and children? Then killing innocents or anyone is not the problem? The only problem being not seeing God's pov and complying accordingly?

    Interesting.
     
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  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Are you satisfied with such an "explanation"?
     
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  12. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    yes
     
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  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Well isn't that convenient. Why couldn't God help to change their minds? It did not take much of a miracle in those days. Isn't it odd that when a miracle would allow God to do the right thing that he very very rarely performs such a miracle?
     
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  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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  15. Alex2022

    Alex2022 New Member

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  16. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    If the story is true; God wants to be feared.
    Well there you go, the order wasn't followed.
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Or it was just a myth all along.
     
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  18. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Student People Stabber

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    That's what genocidal dictators, abusive parents and spouses, and tons of criminals all say.
     
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  19. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    It isn't justified, it is either ignoored or excused by those who claim to follow the bible.
     
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  20. Bree

    Bree Active Member

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    Do you think it was God who raised the first sword against a fellow man?

    Do you think it was God who first chose to kill his brother by smashing a rock against his skull?

    The actions of people back then were not caused or commanded by God. Those violent actions were the way the decendents of Adam and Eve chose to settle disputes, take land, seek revenge....the violent world was of mans making, not Gods.

    So when God chose to help the Isrealites, and made them his special people, he allowed them to protect themselves in the way the were accustomed.
    The nations around them were not going to put their swords down and make peace, so how could the Isrealites put their swords down? That was the nature of warfare back then and it was the nature of people. Violence was common practice.
     
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