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Views of witchcraft

Cassiopia

Sugar and Spice
I don't think witches are any more or less selfish than anybody else.
Let's take a simple example. Suppose a person wants more money? Is that selfish? Perhaps it depends on the context.
A multi millionaire might simply want to increase his/her wealth for shear greed while another person might want more money simply to afford their next meal.
In either case, is there really any difference between invoking a magic spell or simply working hard in other ways to achieve your objective? The action doesn't change the amount of selfishness. And in both cases I think you could argue that both casting a spell or working hard are more morally defensible than going out and stealing the money you need.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
I think each of us are basically selfish and those practicing witchcraft are no different. My view is that unless one is seeking according to God's will and with a desire to be in submission to the Creator their thoughts and behaviors are inevitably going to be selfish.

My view is that if you are selfish until you seek for God, then your reasons for seeking God are selfish.

So according to my view, it would make no difference to God if liberating you from your selfishness because you are selfishly looking for him than to liberate someone else for his selfishness because he is selfishly looking for himself.

Ultimately, if you look for God with an open heart instead of a selfish one, he´ll come in, no matter if you called him "God" "Goddess" "love" "brotherhood" "Me" or "none".

If we ae created in his image, and if he is everywhere, then there is of Him in us. If there is of him in us, then we can find him in us. Thus, serving the right parts of ourselves= serving God. Thus, looking for oneself is the best way of finding God.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
My view is that if you are selfish until you seek for God, then your reasons for seeking God are selfish.

So according to my view, it would make no difference to God if liberating you from your selfishness because you are selfishly looking for him than to liberate someone else for his selfishness because he is selfishly looking for himself.

Ultimately, if you look for God with an open heart instead of a selfish one, he´ll come in, no matter if you called him "God" "Goddess" "love" "brotherhood" "Me" or "none".

If we ae created in his image, and if he is everywhere, then there is of Him in us. If there is of him in us, then we can find him in us. Thus, serving the right parts of ourselves= serving God. Thus, looking for oneself is the best way of finding God.


Do you realize how illogical what you have just said sounds? Read it again and apply the same thinking to yourself or anyone else. I guess it doesn't what you are called, who you really are or what your real name is. Jack, Joe, Fred. or maybe Sally or Sparky or Cactus...would all work just fine. Who cares what your real identity is as long as everyone is happy making you who they want you to be or calling you anything they want to.

Have you ever considered that God may want people to know the reality of who He actually is rather than making up whatever they want, just like an individual wants others to know and accept them for who they are?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Do you realize how illogical what you have just said sounds? Read it again and apply the same thinking to yourself or anyone else. I guess it doesn't what you are called, who you really are or what your real name is. Jack, Joe, Fred. or maybe Sally or Sparky or Cactus...would all work just fine. Who cares what your real identity is as long as everyone is happy making you who they want you to be or calling you anything they want to.

Have you ever considered that God may want people to know the reality of who He actually is rather than making up whatever they want, just like an individual wants others to know and accept them for who they are?


Once upon a time there was this little town of selfish people where one guy appeared and started being altruist. People couldn´t understand him at all, but he said his name was "john". He helped people and helped the town become better all by his self. People started to be able to be altruist because they saw John and did as he did. one day though, John disappeared.

The town went on talking about john and all the things in his life. His favorite colors, the ways in which he said one should be altruist, the best way to do business, etc.

Then when they expanded they noticed there were other towns of selfish people that had came up with altruist people. first the found a town where the person´s name was "Okwonko". On the other town the person´s name was "Alejandro". On other town the person was a woman and her name was "Ling" but she was never seen, only her work was seen.

All this towns had their altruist people, and their altruist peole had different tastes and things they thought best.

From a far the real person looked at them all and smiled when they fought confused. He was the same person in all those towns, and he has used didfferent names because he always picked a name that best described him in the town that he was in. He told them different ways to be altruist because each town had specific needs that were different from one another. they couldn´t seen that was in common between this honest altruist people because they only saw the concrete actions, not the love with which this person did them.

Ultimately, he didn´t care if they thought he was a woman, or a man, or an alien or if he existed, etc. He just cared for them to be happy, and that they care for the happiness in one another. This has been the main essence of his teaching in every culture and this essence took different forms for different cultures because it neded such. Ultimately, this guy doesn´t have ONE form. HE has every form.

this guy truly IS John, Alejandro, Okwonko and Ling and a million more. And he will be amillion more how many times it becomes necesary until the undersand him beyond form and name and costumes.

Ultimately, he was Love and inteligence and Unity. He was compassion and comunion and holiness. This all wer his true trascendent natures. This all is what he has always been and will always be. John, Okwonko Alejandro, Ling, they are all temporary natures. Not important ones. They are forms.

This man was compassion. this man was God. This man was everyone.

Is it so hard to believe that God´s nature trascends names? what is a name? a name is a souns we use to recognize ourselves between humans. God can see the heart and the mind. He will feel alluded when you think and feel with love and compassion. What does he care if compasion sounds like "God" or "Dios (God in spanish) or "Shen" (god in chinese) or Allah, or Shiva, or whoever?

A name is an instrument so you know of who you are talking about. God trascends our bigeest comprehension, so his unity trascends our more complex conceptualizations of him. Do you really think you know anything of importance if you know how the world was made? how does that make you a better person? Love makes you a better person. Compassion does. Happiness does.

All the rest are just stories, and true or not, are irrelevant comparatevely.
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Do you realize how illogical what you have just said sounds? Read it again and apply the same thinking to yourself or anyone else. I guess it doesn't what you are called, who you really are or what your real name is. Jack, Joe, Fred. or maybe Sally or Sparky or Cactus...would all work just fine. Who cares what your real identity is as long as everyone is happy making you who they want you to be or calling you anything they want to.

dear in christ ,

I have just read me my self's post and I can see logic in his thinking .
if we all approach each others posts with an open mind and non judgemental attitude we will find them much easier to understand , there is a tendancy in human beings to jump to conclusions thinking that we might know what a person is saying , rather than listening .


Have you ever considered that God may want people to know the reality of who He actually is rather than making up whatever they want, just like an individual wants others to know and accept them for who they are?
prehaps we should all concider that god knows us better than we know our selves , and that he as the allmighty father is only too delighted when we make our first steps towards him , he expects no more of us than we are ready to give , and that he watches us with the delight of a father knowing full well that it is only natural for us to come to him at first through a veil of self obsessed awareness , and will watch as we explore our understanding of the world beyond our own simple conception ?

it is all a part of the path , we ourselves might look back some years later and realise just how much our conceptions have changed , whilst god looks on "forgiving us our trespasses", and with love willing us on , :)

is yours not a loving forgiving god ?

namaskars :namaste ratikala
 

fenrisx

Member
Do you realize how illogical what you have just said sounds? Read it again and apply the same thinking to yourself or anyone else. I guess it doesn't what you are called, who you really are or what your real name is. Jack, Joe, Fred. or maybe Sally or Sparky or Cactus...would all work just fine. Who cares what your real identity is as long as everyone is happy making you who they want you to be or calling you anything they want to.

Have you ever considered that God may want people to know the reality of who He actually is rather than making up whatever they want, just like an individual wants others to know and accept them for who they are?

and how is ASSUMING you know god's nature is anything unlike taking the lord's name in vain, a common trait among fundies..........
 

fenrisx

Member
Once upon a time there was this little town of selfish people where one guy appeared and started being altruist. People couldn´t understand him at all, but he said his name was "john". He helped people and helped the town become better all by his self. People started to be able to be altruist because they saw John and did as he did. one day though, John disappeared.

The town went on talking about john and all the things in his life. His favorite colors, the ways in which he said one should be altruist, the best way to do business, etc.

Then when they expanded they noticed there were other towns of selfish people that had came up with altruist people. first the found a town where the person´s name was "Okwonko". On the other town the person´s name was "Alejandro". On other town the person was a woman and her name was "Ling" but she was never seen, only her work was seen.

All this towns had their altruist people, and their altruist peole had different tastes and things they thought best.

From a far the real person looked at them all and smiled when they fought confused. He was the same person in all those towns, and he has used didfferent names because he always picked a name that best described him in the town that he was in. He told them different ways to be altruist because each town had specific needs that were different from one another. they couldn´t seen that was in common between this honest altruist people because they only saw the concrete actions, not the love with which this person did them.

Ultimately, he didn´t care if they thought he was a woman, or a man, or an alien or if he existed, etc. He just cared for them to be happy, and that they care for the happiness in one another. This has been the main essence of his teaching in every culture and this essence took different forms for different cultures because it neded such. Ultimately, this guy doesn´t have ONE form. HE has every form.

this guy truly IS John, Alejandro, Okwonko and Ling and a million more. And he will be amillion more how many times it becomes necesary until the undersand him beyond form and name and costumes.

Ultimately, he was Love and inteligence and Unity. He was compassion and comunion and holiness. This all wer his true trascendent natures. This all is what he has always been and will always be. John, Okwonko Alejandro, Ling, they are all temporary natures. Not important ones. They are forms.

This man was compassion. this man was God. This man was everyone.

Is it so hard to believe that God´s nature trascends names? what is a name? a name is a souns we use to recognize ourselves between humans. God can see the heart and the mind. He will feel alluded when you think and feel with love and compassion. What does he care if compasion sounds like "God" or "Dios (God in spanish) or "Shen" (god in chinese) or Allah, or Shiva, or whoever?

A name is an instrument so you know of who you are talking about. God trascends our bigeest comprehension, so his unity trascends our more complex conceptualizations of him. Do you really think you know anything of importance if you know how the world was made? how does that make you a better person? Love makes you a better person. Compassion does. Happiness does.

All the rest are just stories, and true or not, are irrelevant comparatevely.

therein lies the issue of people wanting to presume that it's THEIR god, God is God, and easily transcends such petty selfishness.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Is it so hard to believe that God´s nature trascends names? what is a name? a name is a souns we use to recognize ourselves between humans. God can see the heart and the mind. He will feel alluded when you think and feel with love and compassion. What does he care if compasion sounds like "God" or "Dios (God in spanish) or "Shen" (god in chinese) or Allah, or Shiva, or whoever?

A name is an instrument so you know of who you are talking about. God trascends our bigeest comprehension, so his unity trascends our more complex conceptualizations of him. Do you really think you know anything of importance if you know how the world was made? how does that make you a better person? Love makes you a better person. Compassion does. Happiness does.

All the rest are just stories, and true or not, are irrelevant comparatevely.


[FONT=&quot]It is interesting that you seem to speak for God so easily and know His mind…contrary to what He has already stated.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]And in all that I have said to you, be circumspect and make no mention of the name of other gods, nor let it be heard from your mouth. (Ex. 23:13)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Let them praise the name of the LORD, For His name alone is exalted; His glory is above the earth and heaven. (Psalm 148:13)

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]All the makers of idols will be put to shame and disgraced."[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (Isaiah 45:16)[/FONT]
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
[FONT=&quot]It is interesting that you seem to speak for God so easily and know His mind…contrary to what He has already stated.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]And in all that I have said to you, be circumspect and make no mention of the name of other gods, nor let it be heard from your mouth. (Ex. 23:13)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Let them praise the name of the LORD, For His name alone is exalted; His glory is above the earth and heaven. (Psalm 148:13)

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]All the makers of idols will be put to shame and disgraced."[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (Isaiah 45:16)[/FONT]

No, that's what you believe "He" has stated according to you particular religious scripture. You proclaim to know what "God" wants and know "His" mind just because that's what a specific book tells you. Whether or not that book has any real truth to it is extremely debatable and unprovable and puts your beliefs on par with everyone else's.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
[FONT=&quot][SIZE=wannamakemyselfbigger]It is interesting that you seem to speak for God so easily and know His mind…contrary to what He has already stated.[/FONT]

You too speak so easily as recognizing him in human words left centuries ago.

I prefer to read him in my heart. Ain´t so hard of a concept. He is everywhere.
 
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muffin8or

Grand Canoe Wizard
I believe it is superstition created to explain unknowns hundreds of years ago. I also think that it has been carried forth into modern day by fools who have no idea how to critically think and who are incredibly credulous.
Such examples of this are the belief in Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy, Jesus, Yetis, The Loch Ness Monster, God, Unicorns, UFOs, Witches and Pink Fluffy Elephants. Many people would discount some of these but readily accept others even though there is little evidence for any of them.
 

muffin8or

Grand Canoe Wizard
Astrology, Crystal Healing, Auras, Souls, Ghosts, Gods, Alien Abductions, Homoeopathy, Magic, Psychics, Angels... I could be here all day but that should give you some idea.

Can I marry you? People like us on this site seem few and far between. We must stick together!
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Once upon a time there was this little town of selfish people where one guy appeared and started being altruist.

dear me myself ,
I enjoyed your post ,
as you have explained here , and cassiopia said earlier selfish people exist everywhere , it is human nature at its most simplistic , and allso as I think you are saying the compassionate nature allso exists amongst them , this alturistic heart is human nature on its higher level , it is the divine spark within . the divine spark recognised by many faiths , as none have a monopoly on god , god is everywhere :)

Is it so hard to believe that God´s nature trascends names? what is a name? a name is a souns we use to recognize ourselves between humans. God can see the heart and the mind. He will feel alluded when you think and feel with love and compassion. What does he care if compasion sounds like "God" or "Dios (God in spanish) or "Shen" (god in chinese) or Allah, or Shiva, or whoever?
yes , you say it is hard but it becomes easier , and in the end you see him everywhere and in every thing , and then any beleiver becomes a freind , and we can simmilarly rejoice in each others realisation , prehaps a pagan sees his energy , his creation and sees their place to work within .... a christian sees the figure of god the one in whos immage we were made , and sees their place to revere that allmighty lord ..... a bhuddhist sees the mind of god the heart the nature of compassion , and honnors that pure mind by pureifying their impure minds .the hindu in a myriad of ways worship aspects and manifestations of that supreme being . all together we might build a picture of the lord , but none see him in his entirety for he is without end , without limitation , limitless , omnicient , omnipresent , omnipotent , and beyond the scope of words .:bow:

All the rest are just stories, and true or not, are irrelevant comparatevely.
storys , parables , fables , mythology , .....just our way of explaining our understanding , passing on our perceived wisdom ,

but yes , ultimately god is every thing :bow:

namaskars :namaste .....ratikala
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
dear me myself ,
I enjoyed your post ,
as you have explained here , and cassiopia said earlier selfish people exist everywhere , it is human nature at its most simplistic , and allso as I think you are saying the compassionate nature allso exists amongst them , this alturistic heart is human nature on its higher level , it is the divine spark within . the divine spark recognised by many faiths , as none have a monopoly on god , god is everywhere :)

I specialy liked the bolded part. Yes, I agree. If we were unable to be compassionate we would be unable to feel God´s higher nature. That´s my belief at least.

dear me myself ,
yes , you say it is hard but it becomes easier , and in the end you see him everywhere and in every thing , and then any beleiver becomes a freind , and we can simmilarly rejoice in each others realisation , prehaps a pagan sees his energy , his creation and sees their place to work within .... a christian sees the figure of god the one in whos immage we were made , and sees their place to revere that allmighty lord ..... a bhuddhist sees the mind of god the heart the nature of compassion , and honnors that pure mind by pureifying their impure minds .the hindu in a myriad of ways worship aspects and manifestations of that supreme being . all together we might build a picture of the lord , but none see him in his entirety for he is without end , without limitation , limitless , omnicient , omnipresent , omnipotent , and beyond the scope of words .:bow:

The question was rethoric :D I mean´t it shouldn´t be that hard if you think about it a little bit. But it´s true, we all conceptualize god in some ways even if we realize he is beyond such concepts, at least until we become buddhas or something :D

storys , parables , fables , mythology , .....just our way of explaining our understanding , passing on our perceived wisdom ,

but yes , ultimately god is every thing :bow:

namaskars :namaste .....ratikala

Yeah I agree, the parables are means to wisdom. Hopefully the truth of the wisdom in ones don´t blind from the wisdom in others explained in opposite manners.

Namaste :)
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
FOR ONE WHO SEES ME EVERYWHERE AND SEES EVERYTHING IN ME , I AM NEVER LOST , NOR IS HE EVER LOST TO ME .

bhagavad gita ch.. 6 v.. 30



 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
dear all ,

it would seem that we know what christians and atheists think of witch craft
and each other ,

Wow...talk about superstition!
prehaps we can return to the original thread , would someone like to give a little more insight into the present day uses of witchcraft , then prehaps a few myths can be disspelled .

what do witches from different traditions think of eachothers practices ?

namaskars :namaste .....ratikala
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, I haven't slogged through this thread and I know this post will probably be overlooked, but that's okay. One thing that is interesting to consider with respect to this topic are some more contemporary anthropological studies on the nature of magic. In particular, I would recommend Susan Greenwood, as she is one of the few anthropologists that treats the subject seriously. By seriously, I mean she doesn't try to explain it away with social theories or dismiss it as a spurious or primitive form of science; she examines it its own terms and looks at the role it has for individual practitioners. I've found her writing enormously helpful in clarifying my own thoughts about the subject.
 

Cassiopia

Sugar and Spice
Well, I haven't slogged through this thread and I know this post will probably be overlooked, but that's okay. One thing that is interesting to consider with respect to this topic are some more contemporary anthropological studies on the nature of magic. In particular, I would recommend Susan Greenwood, as she is one of the few anthropologists that treats the subject seriously. By seriously, I mean she doesn't try to explain it away with social theories or dismiss it as a spurious or primitive form of science; she examines it its own terms and looks at the role it has for individual practitioners. I've found her writing enormously helpful in clarifying my own thoughts about the subject.
I'll look her up.
 
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