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Views of witchcraft

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Cassiopia, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

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    Where is that discussion mood now? :shrug:
     
  2. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    [FONT=&quot]“By God's amazing providence, I was hiking through a beautiful forest back in the early nineties with a young environmental activist. She had just told me that she was a witch, a lesbian, and an elementary school teacher. She wanted to help build a "better" world -- one that reflected her quest for "good, not evil" power.[/FONT]
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    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]"If you love nature so much, how can you be a Christian?" asked Tracy as we headed up a trail.[/FONT]
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    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]"Why does that surprise you?" I asked.[/FONT]
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    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]"Your God separated people from the earth. We believe in oneness with nature."[/FONT]
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    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]I prayed for words that would speak to her heart. "Tracy, I know the God who created all this beauty," I began. "He loves it, and He fills me with His love for His creation...."[/FONT]
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    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Silently we listened to the whispers of the wind in the treetops. They reminded me of the kindness of my Creator and I felt a surge of joy.
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]
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    [FONT=&quot]"Tracy, I pray and thank God for the wonders of His creation," I said. "Do you pray to the goddess?"[/FONT]
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    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]"No," she answered. "We don't pray. We call it 'doing magic'."[/FONT]
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    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]"Doing magic?" That's the opposite of trusting God! “Doing magic” implies that people command occult forces to fulfill their own human will. In the process, they become virtual slaves to those forces. But prayer involves trusting God and seeking His will, strength and guidance.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Struck by the immensity of the spiritual chasm between us, I glanced at Tracy. We both wanted to do what was "good," but her good was the opposite of mine. As God warned us long ago:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness." Isaiah 5:20-21”[/FONT]

    Excerpt: [FONT=&quot]Reviving Witchcraft![/FONT]
    Reviving Witchcraft
     
  3. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

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    Actually, I recently was informed that the scriptures only talk against specific types of magic, not all of them. English trasnlations would only be inprecise if this was the case. I shall look into it.
     
  4. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Prayers and chants and the like are considered forms of magic. Either by direction of energy or requests for intercession for things possibly beyond our scope, it's still magic. So the idea that witches don't pray is actually wrong. At least with theistic witches that is. Witches that happen to have belief in deities, and commune and speak with their deities, and request strength or comfort from them in times of need, pray. Our forms of prayer and our discourse might differ from what most people know of, but we still pray none-the-less.
     
  5. Cassiopia

    Cassiopia Sugar and Spice

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    Well, I'm a witch and I do pray. So that portrayal of witches is not true of all witches, not that I think it is inaccurate. She seems to have been a good person. Indeed it seems even the speaker thought she was a good, well meaning person.
    His problem with her was simply a particular understanding of a particular scripture.
    Sad.
     
  6. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I am sure that as with anything there are variations and some who are witches pray and some don't. I suppose the question is who does one pray to? Who do you pray to and what is your motive for praying? I'm asking out of interest, but you don't have to answer if you'd rather not.
     
  7. Cassiopia

    Cassiopia Sugar and Spice

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    I pray for different things in different ways. I have some Jewish friends who tell me their prayers are sometimes like conversations with their Lord, sometimes needy, sometimes funny and sometimes just full of praise. My prayers are often like that too.
    I generally pray to the universe (or to be more precise, the creative force I believe to be immanent in the universe) or to my matron Goddess.
    Mostly I pray for guidance or just because I want to share my thoughts with divinity. I do sometimes pray for help with certain things, however, as a witch I take personal responsibility seriously and try to do what I can through magic or you might prefer the phrase will-power. As, Draka has said, this can also be seen as a form of prayer.
     
  8. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Thank you very much for sharing. I also pray in conversation style, speaking freely and honestly to God about my concerns. I believe in God as a personal and caring Creator who holds all power over heaven and earth and knows what is best for each situation.
    I guess the main differences that I see between your perspective and the way you pray and the biblical form of prayer is the object of prayer… immanent universe/matron Goddess or Creator God and whose power is being sought… the Creator’s will and power or one’s own power and will through magic.

    I have a very close friend who was involved in Wicca for many years and has shared her experiences/perspective with me. She is now loves and trusts Jesus Christ. She says she used to have much more confusion and fear in her life and now she truly has peace. But that is just her perspective.
     
  9. CynthiaCypher

    CynthiaCypher Well-Known Member

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    Basically InChrist is saying that their voodoo is better than your voodoo. Because from what I know Christian petition god to work magic just the same as any other religion
     
  10. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Voodoo.

    Who do?

    You do.

    Do what?
    .
    .
    .
    Remind me of the babe.

    Sorry :eek: Couldn't help myself.
     
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  11. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    And likewise many who have left Christ now say they live without fear. Just another perspective.

    I think the article InChrist is quoting assumes the answer to an important question that has not yet been asked: Is witchcraft selfish? Or perhaps the question more refined to the specific aspect of witchcraft being discussed: Is that act of invoking forces through the use of your will to change your surroundings selfish? I wonder how the people in this thread would answer that.
     
  12. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Mike? Mike! :faint:
     
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  13. Levite

    Levite Higher and Higher

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    Some of my best friends in college were Wiccans and Pagans. They were very non-judgmental, open, giving, and peaceful people. They prayed, and also did magic. They were no more selfish than any of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims that I was friends with.

    I might consider what they do theologically to be prohibited to Jews, but for non-Jews, it looked to be just as good a path as any to try and touch the face of the Infinite....
     
  14. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    What if there is a personal Creator and the desire of this Creator is that people seek Him for knowledge and wisdom rather than self or an immanent power?
     
  15. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    Missing the issue. Is the act of seeking inherently selfish? The question makes no assumption on the nature of the divine, be it transcendental or immanent. The question is asking about the act itself of seeking, not the source from which it is sought.
     
  16. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Many may leave behind Christian religion and now feel free from fear, but I don't believe anyone who knows Jesus and His love ever leave Him. My sentiments are similar to the apostle Peter's and I believe they are the sentiments and anyone who truly knows Jesus Christ.
    [FONT=&quot]But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. [FONT=&quot]John [/FONT]6:68 [/FONT]

    I think each of us are basically selfish and those practicing witchcraft are no different. My view is that unless one is seeking according to God's will and with a desire to be in submission to the Creator their thoughts and behaviors are inevitably going to be selfish.
     
  17. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Are you really already reduced to the "what if" game?
     
  18. Cassiopia

    Cassiopia Sugar and Spice

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    I think the answer to the first part of your question is fairly simple. When addressing prayers to the universe or any God or Goddess it is principally the same power that is being sought. The highest power. You may use the word GOD, and so might I on some occasions, but generally the universe makes more sense to me personally. On the other hand there are times when I want to approach divinity in a more personal way, through the lens of a particular personality and then I speak to my Matron Goddess in much the same way as you might address your prayers to Jesus.

    Where some forms of Christianity may differ from Paganism is that Pagans don't think there is anything wrong in using our own knowledge, skills and will power, maybe through magic and maybe through sheer hard work and determination. I am sure Christians do this too, but they seem to be more limited in "which" of their powers and skills they are allowed to use.

    Well good for her. Seriously. I don't believe there is any "one size fits all" religion. If your friend has found peace and purpose in her Christian beliefs then I genuinely wish her well. My story was the opposite way round. I started in Christianity and after a lot of searching found myself much more at home and comfortable as a Pagan.
     
  19. blackout

    blackout Violet.

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    People Will to do things all the time without "God's permission".

    They chose a career path,
    they embark on hobbies or crafts,
    they go on vacations,
    decorate their homes,
    buy new cars,
    choose what foods to buy at the grocery store,
    chose tv shows to watch,
    decide to go for walks,
    or take a nap.
    or participate on a forum.
    etc etc etc.

    If you Will to become a nurse,
    you go to nursing school.
    If you Will to become a musician,
    you practice.
    If you Will to lose weight,
    you change your diet and exercise.

    The claim that some people do not actively engage
    to seek to manifest their own will,
    and only that of (some other) 'god'
    is selective at best,
    and completely dishonest at worst.
     
    #159 blackout, Oct 27, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2011
  20. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

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    What if this God is only waiting for you to reach unity with to him through knowledge of your own self and immanent power to heal yourself and others?
     
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