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Victim Blaming (attempt 2)

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Let’s talk Victim Blaming


Ok now that you’ve click on my thread and fell for my trap (mwahahaha) or maybe you really do wanna talk victim blaming, let’s get to it.


I want to start off by stating my stance on the criminals (abusers, rapists, etc.) and the victims, my official and outward public opinion is that I never blame the victim for the sole purpose of letting the criminals know that this will NEVER EVER be tolerated nor ever give them a precedent to try and fall back on. Now, with that pc junk out of the way, let’s get to the fun stuff. I will play out 2 different scenarios with my opinion at the end, I would encourage people to join in.


Scenario 1:

A random lady goes jogging a few times week, same days at the same time, her creepy neighbor is constantly watching and stalking her, he knows when she’s home alone and pretty much knows her schedule. He devises a plan and one day rapes, when he’s done he threatens to kill her if she ever reports him. Unfortunately, he ends up committing this crime 2 more times before she finally calls the authorities and he gets thrown in jail.

Even though she could have reported him after the first instance but, there was enough fear (for her life and possibly others that lived with her) and cause for her not do so. Now this unfortunately, happened 2 more times before she finally reported him.

Let’s look at the criminal and the victim separately for a bit. The rapist got what he wanted, I highly doubt any person can defend the rapist in this case so I won’t elaborate any further. The victim got raped, traumatized, physically and mentally messed up as well as a bunch of other “scars” for the rest of her life, the victim was 100% a loser in this situation. She did nothing to deserve it, she could not escape it, she did not encourage it nor have the power to stop it.

In this scenario, I blame the victim 0% and 100% on the rapists.


Scenario 2:

A female personal trainer is training a famous athlete (for those wondering this scenario is loosely based off Antonio Brown’s case), after training him for a few months or even a year, one day she claims that on 3 separate occasions he exploited her and sexually assaulted her as she claims he used manipulation to bring her in to his world and get her name out there (among other athletes) as a trainer, where should would profit in return. I guess they would both profit in their own way. And for sake of this scenario, let’s not assume she only claims this happened, let’s go ahead and say this 100% happened, he 100% sexually assaulted her on 3 separate occasions.


Let’s look at the criminal and the victim separately once more. Let’s start with the “criminal”, while yes, he did possibly abuse his power as a famous athlete (and for sake of this scenario only) yes, he did sexually assault her 3 different times and yes, he did understand by getting sexual favors he would in turn “make her famous” among other athletes. I could add more but you get the idea.


Ok now to the “victim”, is she really a victim? Let’s look and think about this logically, after the first sexual assault, she must have gone home and thought about what happened, right? She must have recalled how weak and abused she felt, right? I mean for crying out loud she must have at the very least thought about what they both did to end up in that situation. Ok now that she spent all night or a few days thinning about it, we would assume if it truly were sexual assault, she would either 1) quit 2) report it to the cops or 3) Have a plan in place to make sure this doesn’t happen again. I am 100% fine if she chose option 3 since, it may or may not have really been that bad (I don’t know) and I don’t want to lose my job over it.

I am 100% fine with always giving the “victim” a pass the first time things like this happen because they could have been caught off guard and just went along with whatever was going on out of fear. Fine, I get it the world is a cruel place and sometimes crap happens. So far she is 100% innocent in my book. But, that’s not where it stop, she went back again (remember she claims 3 separate occasions) so she gets “sexually assaulted” again all while still holding out for hopes that she will get famous among other athletes and be brought in to her “abusers” world and all the bling bling that goes along with it.

The first time it happened we gave her a pass for the reasons stated above, what about the 2nd and 3rd time? Why not report him and sue him after the 2nd time? Why let it happen 3 times? Is she really a victim or just some “gold digging” modern day prostitute hoping to get famous? This is the day and age of social media and the metoo movement, why not come out after the 2nd time it happened? We all know that today whether allegations are true or not people are losing their jobs. She is not training some random dude in the woods that no one can find or reach, she’s training a famous athlete that the entire world (at least the US) knows, so why did she really stay quiet? Personally, I believe she was staying quiet during all this “sexual assaults” (which are bs) because she was hoping for a big “ pay day” but when she found out there was no gold at the end of the rainbow she played her victim card. To me this sounds seems like it was a consensual or at the very least an implied consensual agreement that turned negative, like a bad business partnership. She was fine “training” him even though she admits he was being manipulative and assaulting her, and he seems to not have a problem keeping her hired as long as they both got what they wanted.

In this scenario, I blame the “victim” 70% and 30% on the “criminal” although I don’t really consider him a criminal in the true sense, yeah he abused his power and all messed up stuff but, she had plenty of time to stop it. Had she complained after the first time I would not have blamed her at all.

In my opinion, the criminal is always responsible for the crimes they commit, no ifs, ands, or buts. Of course, the "innocent until proven guilty" rule must always apply, so they still have to be given a fair trial, be able to face their accuser, and be proven guilty before they're actually treated as such. The criminal isn't any less guilty, even if the victim exercised poor judgment.

I wouldn't consider it victim-blaming if someone merely observes that the victim could have used better judgment or made better choices, as long as it doesn't affect the guilt of the criminal. However, I have seen some discussions where even the mere mention of questionable judgment on the part of the victim is lambasted as "victim-blaming," when it really isn't. Pointing out other people's mistakes or instances of poor judgment may help others to learn not to make such mistakes. Or as they sometimes say "Don't let this happen to you!"
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
Instead of going through your reply I think I think I fully understand your stance. My goal was to hear opinions not try and change them . We can agree to disagree, we don't have to agree and that's not a negative thing. Thank you

Fair enough. Note that I don't think you are an inhumane sexist monster for thinking that the victim can be to blame in certain circumstances. In a sense, you are correct. People who are sexually abused can have been imprudent or made something stupid out of desperation or lack of maturity that has contributed to them being in such a situtation. I just don't think it should be levied upon them or used to shame them or even excuse the perpetrator since they already suffered enough and the perpetrator still did something obviously wrong and harmful to another person.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
So let's focus on scenario 2, so you are saying even though she went back multiple times after she claims she was sexually assaulted an she admitted that she could actually prosper in return that she is still 100% free of any blame at all?
There is no such condition as "100% free of blame". Being a female makes her partly to "blame". Being scared makes her partly to blame. Being physically weaker makes her partly to blame. Being vulnerable and therefor attractive to predators makes her partly to blame ... if you want to assign blame to her. But in the end, the moment she says "no" and he doesn't stop, it becomes a sexual assault. And he is the one doing the assaulting.
 
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HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
I have a public opinion because I would never publicly stand with any abuser, oppressor, rapist or anyone that does any of these acts or even acts that can be described as such.
Yes, but you also dismissed that as "pc junk" and a specifically public opinion suggests you have a different, real private one. I just curious why, if you presumably consider your real opinion to be valid, it wouldn't just be your public opinion too. You might not share it in places it might be considered controversial or simply not be well received but that is different to having a different (and therefore false) public opinion you claim to have. It just all feel a bit "I'm not racist but...". :cool:

"is there anything the "victim" could have done to prevent abuse after the 1st or 2nd time?"
That isn't an entirely unreasonable question but it's one you need to be very careful with, especially in relation to specific examples and real people. It's all too easy to assume that there was an easy route out of a situation for the victim when , for them in that time and place, your assumptions simply didn't apply for some reason. And as soon as you start assuming motives or intentions of specific victims, especially with zero evidence or justification, you're on a very, very slippery slope.

And regardless of whether you intend it or not, talking about what victims could (or should) have done to prevent the crime can and does present the impression of minimising (or even absolving) the responsibility and guilt of the criminals, especially in sexual assault and rape cases for some reason.

The other issue remans that you didn't treat your two scenarios equally, apparently because you manufactured them to present your person opinion on a real case without having to back them up.

Today, people are too busy defending the victim by giving them 0 accountability that they are only empowering futures abusers because the victim feels they did nothing wrong therefore, will do the same in the future. How do you expect the future to change when the past keeps recurring?
You don't need to attack individual victims of crime to talk about things we can all do to reduce our risks of being victims. So far, you've only done the former.

The other question would be way are you only doing it for (female) sexual assault and rape victims? Do you condemn mugging victims for carrying valuables in public, question how big an insurance pay-out someone gets after their car is stolen or tell people who keep getting burgled to just move house?
 

Earthtank

Active Member
Being a female makes her partly to "blame"

No, she can't control being a female.

Being scared makes her partly to blame.

Not entirely but I see where you are coming from

Being physically weaker makes her partly to blame

Definitely not

Being vulnerable and therefor attractive to predators makes her partly to blame ... if you want to assign blame to her.

Definitely not. She can't control her looks nor who's attracted to her pretty or ugly self. Everyone has a different taste.

But in the end, the moment she says "no" and he doesn't stop, it becomes a sexual assault. And he is the one doing the assaulting.


Agreed but that's not what happened in scenario 2 so not sure why this is relevant
 
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