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Featured Very Strong Evidence Against the Existence of the Supernatural

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Jul 2, 2017.

  1. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    This is a silly post. You say you want to disprove the existence of the supernatural by saying that miracles don't work in accordance with the natural world. That's pretty much the definition of the word 'supernatural'. Miracles are supernatural because they are not in accordance with the natural.
     
    #61 Akivah, Jul 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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  2. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    You went off on a wrong tangent in reply to my original comment: I actually do believe water can be turned into wine by forces and abilities not currently understood by science.

    My comment had nothing to do with the Bible but was based on the purported miracles of modern time Indian/Hindu Holy Men and Avatars. I believe Jesus studied in the Himalayan region during his missing years and likely developed what are called Siddhis (paranormal abilities in western language). The wine comment I made was just because that was an example the person I was replying to used. Basically, I was saying I believe Holy Men do develop paranormal abilities.

    My beliefs come from the quantity, quality and consistency of the evidence for the paranormal abilities of certain modern Holy Men.
     
  3. shawn001

    shawn001 Well-Known Member

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    Same comment on water into wine in general, you can't foment water no matter who you are, it's not possible.

    "My comment had nothing to do with the Bible but was based on the purported miracles of modern time Indian/Hindu Holy Men and Avatars."

    Is purported proof? Any real science to back it up, just curious.

    I have read that he may have studied in India.

    "paranormal abilities" Which are what exactly?

    The Bible version wasn't to be taken literally, it was another parable.
    .
     
  4. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    Why do you think you know everything that is possible with paranormal abilities? Who knows if fermentation was even involved, it could just as well have been replacement of the water with wine through paranormal methods. I don't know.
     
  5. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    how many people have ever witnessed a supernatural occurence?, none.

    an intelligent creator would have to work within the bounds and limits of the universe. a creator would have to be an immaterial force in nature. existing immaterially.

    The closest we come to the supernatural is non locality in physics.

    perhaps there is a superseding force in nature, but it doesn't evidence itself to date.

    dark energy may be a candidate for an intelligent force but nothing is known about it.
    space itself expanded over 13 billion years, that sounds supernatural.

    but magical happenings do not exist, why even argue it?
     
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  6. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    [​IMG]

    "ME! ME!........................One time I saw a two backed monster bouncing up and down on my parent's bed that told me to "Get the hell out of the room and close the door." I think it may have devoured our mail man because it sounded just like him.
    And I know it was supernatural because my teacher even said so. I forget what she called it, but I remember its named started with an "F."

    .
     
    #66 Skwim, Jul 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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  7. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    You have obviously made your mind up. Thus, no discussion is going to profit either you, me or others on this.

    However, let me make an observation that tickles my funny bone. Do doctors today have the ability to artificial inseminate a female, without her having sex, so that she becomes pregnant?! Obviously, there is nothing new here.

    It is then fairly humorous to see how atheists deny that someone who (for the discussion) created all nature, man included, does not have the same and even much greater ability than a mere human doctor. Thus, your claim of this being physically impossible - is only from your personal perspective.

    But, this discussion with evolutionists is really just not producing anything worthwhile in its pursuit. Enjoy your paradigm, no matter how much it disagrees on every level with mine.
     
  8. Satans_Serrated_Edge

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    Strong case, but a waste of time. To those that navigate the word by reason, such a breakdown is unnecessary, and to those that do not, such a breakdown if futile.

    You can not reason people away from beliefs they were not reasoned into.
     
  9. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    1 - What do you mean? It sounds like you have a hope to disprove ALL phenomenons believed to be supernatural. Why?

    2 - God can violate physics but not logic. God is the author of physics and we call His intervention here miracles.

    3 - I've addressed this canard in detail elsewhere. What are the next immediate verses in this story?!

    4 - The existence of people preaching religion and fighting religion on this forum are facts in evidence.
     
  10. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    You behave in ways the Bible explains are the ways of skeptics. You and all other skeptics at this forum underscore the truthfulness of the Bible.
     
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  11. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Which ways are that?


    Because if we bundle a bunch of claims together, if one claim is true, they all must be true?
     
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  12. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

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    Every day - countless times. Fortunately, we have other people who are trained and intelligent and actually work on coming up with actual explanations for things, so that we can move beyond our primitive, fearful, superstitious state. Well, at least some of us.
     
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  13. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

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    Is there any religious argument that isn't circular in nature?


    That's a rhetorical question.
     
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  14. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Probably not because you have also made up your mind.

    Err, we have actual evidence that artificial insemination works. What we don't have is actual evidence that god exists. All we have are personal inferences.

    And to compare assisting fertilization to creating human life without benefit of sperm and ovum is rather obtuse, don't you think? I do.

    .
     
  15. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    Are you asserting that the abrahamic god is made up of dark matter? If so, provide evidence for your god of the gaps claim. If not, then the comment is irrelevant.
     
  16. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    WHAT? How does the conversation I was having have to do with the Abrahamic God being made of dark matter? The OP was about more than the Abrahamic God. And I am not even an Abrahamic.

    Are you confusing me with another poster?
     
  17. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Again! Waste of time.
    The same old arguments that neither accept nor refuse to give up come back for one more round in the boxing arena: When I see a complicated machine, airplane, car such as Mercedes, or a computer, there is no discussion as to having actual evidence of someone making it - because it is right in front of my eyes. Thus, I have in just this one example, all the actual evidence I need to prove to me that God exists. You are now going to tell me that this example is old and that evolutionists already have a term for this kind of claim - justifying your disbelief in that manner.

    The better thing to do here is to each have a cold beer and contemplate a beautiful sunset in silence. Me admiring God's handiwork and the cold beer on a hot day, and you perhaps just enjoying the beer and the view.
     
  18. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Just as I said: personal inference. Thank you for the illustrative example. :thumbsup:

    .
     
  19. shawn001

    shawn001 Well-Known Member

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    "Why do you think you know everything that is possible with paranormal abilities?"

    I didn't say the above, you did.

    You only mentioned one to me and it's impossible. List anymore you want and we can look at their merits and evidence.

    "it could just as well have been replacement of the water with wine through paranormal methods."

    Slight of hand, a trick?

    "I don't know."

    Thanks for being Honest. :)
     
  20. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Evolution created us. Therefore you should conclude that Evolution is God. When you deny evolution, you deny knowledge of God.

    For me, there is no disbelief in God. There is an acceptance of facts and seeing God within these.

    This is of course a great way to see God. Pondering the wonder of evolution is another way.
     
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