Verse 2:13.

[Link]

And when it is said to them: Believe as the people believe they say: Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know.


Some hadiths exist describing "the humans" to be specific people or some sense "the true humans", and this what Tabatabai leaned towards.

Let me tell you what I perceive of this.


1. People believe in seeking the truth and showing it when you know. These people believe this is for most people a fools errand and rather, think, it's fine to deceive and mask the truth.

2. People believe in not killing innocents, not harming people who have not fought you, these people believe end justifies the means, and are willing to cause chaos and spread war to achieve their world order.

3. People believe in a sense of duty in guiding others and helping enforce values, these people believe almost all have a confused opposite view of good and evil, and don't understand the values they emphasize on, let alone that they have a duty. They believe it's better everyone lives and let lives, because we over all are ignorant, so to each their own.

4. People believing family structure is blessed, these people belief the heart of division hate ignorance and cultural evils all stems from family structure and identity. They wish to sabotage it.

And in almost everything people believe, these people don't.

These verses are not about hypocrites by weakness, that they by weakness show belief but really disbelieve in the hearts.

These verses are about Magog, the devotees to Gog.

They are about really a certain people who are so messed up and so astray from human nature, they don't believe anything that in general all humans believe.

And it's these people that rule us today. Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[icehorse]

And this is a great example of why I feel scripture is such a problem..

- On the one hand, hundreds of millions of people place an extremely high value on their scripture.
- On the other hand, there are many interpretations of scripture, because it tends to be poorly written.

Taken together, this has caused a lot of pain and suffering and violence in the world, and it continues to do so.

So @Link - maybe your interpretation is what the writer of the book intended, and maybe it's not. We can never know for sure, but we sure can fight about it - argh.

 

[Link]

It takes time to understand truth, while falsehood is believed in haste.

This is why I don't like Sufism and any mystical path that tries to quicken spiritual process.

Patience and slow downloading is always better means of remembering God. Sometimes we need fast info and feel overwhelmed, but greater downloads from God and his chosen ones, takes time.

I know you can't verify what I say, but I'm just planting seeds here.

 

[icehorse]

It takes time to understand truth, while falsehood is believed in haste.

This is why I don't like Sufism and any mystical path that tries to quicken spiritual process.

Patience and slow downloading is always better means of remembering God. Sometimes we need fast info and feel overwhelmed, but greater downloads from God and his chosen ones, takes time.

I know you can't verify what I say, but I'm just planting seeds here.

But as an outside observer, what's clear to me is that no matter how much time and care YOU put into your studies, there will be others who put just as much time into theirs, and they will arrive at different conclusions. So if you think you have "the truth™" and that another person's understanding is false, then what? When it comes to disagreements over scriptural interpretations, we have thousands of years of evidence that such disagreements frequently devolve into violence. The very fact that you're claiming that you have "the truth™" is provocative.