Verifiable evidence for creationism?

[james bond]

You provided me the best links I could probably find to support me. You clearly didn't read at least half the articles you sent me or you wouldn't say they were evidence of your point.

All right, please in your own words, explain and provide examples from the links I provided how they support your pov.

I provided the links because I don't think you're are capable of finding them. Again, I am familiar with those links because they are some of what I investigated on my own. Don't you think that this subject was important to me? I hope they disprove that I just googled them like you did.

Furthermore, I can provide to atheists here what I used to study evolution. Most can't explain diddly except the gloss they read on the internet *like you* and your LiveScience article. Is that all you need to convince you that there is no afterlife? Instead, my claim is that it's *your* faith that is talking. Faith that is based on fairy tales.

I even gave you the listverse version. In a nutshell, it shows the areas one can further study.

 

[james bond]

I think you had too many of those (shaken) Vodka Martinis

Ciao

- viole

Ha ha. I gave up those vodka martinis shaken for just wine.

Which parts didn't agree with you?

 

[viole]

Ha ha. I gave up those vodka martinis shaken for just wine.

Which parts didn't agree with you?

Well, ask those parts.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Monk Of Reason]

All right, please in your own words, explain and provide examples from the links I provided how they support your pov.

I provided the links because I don't think you're are capable of finding them. Again, I am familiar with those links because they are some of what I investigated on my own. Don't you think that this subject was important to me? I hope they disprove that I just googled them like you did.

I haven't been spamming you with links so when would I have simply google dumped?

But lets take one example here. This is a link you posted at me.
The Neurology Of Near-Death Experiences

This is not a scientific study but a link to a psychology today article written by Medical Doctor Alex Lickerman. In the article he discusss near death experiences and how they have been misinterpreted by people for generations. Here is a quote from the article itself.

"That NDEs happen isn't in dispute. The sequence and type of events of which they're composed are similar enough among people who report them that NDEs could be considered a syndrome of sorts akin to a disease lacking a known cause. But just because millions of people have experienced NDEs doesn't mean the most commonly believed explanation for them—that souls leave bodies and encounter God or some other evidence for the afterlife—is correct. After all, people misinterpret their experience all the time (an optical illusion representing the most basic example). Without a doubt, many people who report NDEs are profoundly affected by them, but usually more as a result of their interpretation of the experience (i.e., the afterlife is real) than as a result of the experience itself"

Further down the article he talks about out of body experiences and a well known older experiment that was done in the 50's where we could simply re-create out of body experiences by stimulating specific parts of the brain. This verifies that it is not a spiritual experience but a disrupted sensory based experience created in the brain.

"One patient suffered from temporal lobe seizures and when Penfield stimulated the temporoparietal region of his brain, he reported leaving his body. When the stimulation stopped, he "returned," and when Penfield stimulated the temporoparietal region again, he left his body once more."

Furthermore, I can provide to atheists here what I used to study evolution. Most can't explain diddly except the gloss they read on the internet *like you* and your LiveScience article. Is that all you need to convince you that there is no afterlife? Instead, my claim is that it's *your* faith that is talking. Faith that is based on fairy tales.

I even gave you the listverse version. In a nutshell, it shows the areas one can further study.

Evolution doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing here. This isn't even an atheist vs theist argument. You are claiming that we have scientific evidence of the afterlife and I'm calling your bull****. You bring articles from non-scientific bunk web articles to articles that have some legitimacy but are not even related to the afterlife at all. I can't prove there is no afterlife. I can't stop you or anyone else from believing in one. That isn't my piont. The point is we do not have scientific evidence of it and to think so is fallacious.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You just answered my question with another question. Many times I have said if you have faith and believe in Him, then God will reveal himself to you. You have to make the first move. In your case, I think you have to realize *your world* exists because you exist. He does not exist in your world even if He is there because you choose to not have Him exist in your world.

As I said pages ago, I've asked god to reveal himself to me and I got nothing. So your claim is a false one.

Since you continue to have more questions, you will get the answers you want in the afterlife.

It's not I who does not understand. Just look in the mirror to see who does not get it and I mean that in a ♥ friendly way.

You keep avoiding the point for some reason and you keep avoiding any actual explanation for the things you posit as evidence for your god.

Finally, something we can agree on. You never claimed to know because you do not know anything and science. Yet, you won't believe what I just told you or do you? We can continue to study and research this to expand our knowledge, but we will never know for sure.

When you can demonstrate the existence of the creator you believe in with some evidence that actually makes some sense, then I might believe. I see no good reasons to believe in any creator god, otherwise.

Yet, I tell an atheist that and he expects an answer. What a lazy and stupid human. I can give you a listverse on this, so you can start gathering your knowledge. You won't find the ultimate answer, but you may just get what you want.

I'm baffled as to how you got this out of our conversation when I just said that I don't claim to know things I don't have answers for. You claim to have answers as to how the universe got here, not I. Yet, you can't demonstrate the veracity of your claims.

There are many things you do not know nor are sure of. For example, why do you think aliens exist? Why should we colonize Mars when it's uninhabitable and we have no transportation to get there. If universes pop up just randomly and are infinite, then how come you can't make one appear now? Why do apes still climb trees and swing from them? Why aren't the apes walking? How did life begin from nothing? How do you know that the moon was created from earth?

The answers to such things require honest and rigorous investigation rather than just settling for some "god did it" answer, which in actuality isn't an explanation for anything at all.

 

[james bond]

I haven't been spamming you with links so when would I have simply google dumped?

But lets take one example here. This is a link you posted at me.
The Neurology Of Near-Death Experiences

This is not a scientific study but a link to a psychology today article written by Medical Doctor Alex Lickerman. In the article he discusss near death experiences and how they have been misinterpreted by people for generations. Here is a quote from the article itself.

"That NDEs happen isn't in dispute. The sequence and type of events of which they're composed are similar enough among people who report them that NDEs could be considered a syndrome of sorts akin to a disease lacking a known cause. But just because millions of people have experienced NDEs doesn't mean the most commonly believed explanation for them—that souls leave bodies and encounter God or some other evidence for the afterlife—is correct. After all, people misinterpret their experience all the time (an optical illusion representing the most basic example). Without a doubt, many people who report NDEs are profoundly affected by them, but usually more as a result of their interpretation of the experience (i.e., the afterlife is real) than as a result of the experience itself"

Further down the article he talks about out of body experiences and a well known older experiment that was done in the 50's where we could simply re-create out of body experiences by stimulating specific parts of the brain. This verifies that it is not a spiritual experience but a disrupted sensory based experience created in the brain.

"One patient suffered from temporal lobe seizures and when Penfield stimulated the temporoparietal region of his brain, he reported leaving his body. When the stimulation stopped, he "returned," and when Penfield stimulated the temporoparietal region again, he left his body once more."


Evolution doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing here. This isn't even an atheist vs theist argument. You are claiming that we have scientific evidence of the afterlife and I'm calling your bull****. You bring articles from non-scientific bunk web articles to articles that have some legitimacy but are not even related to the afterlife at all. I can't prove there is no afterlife. I can't stop you or anyone else from believing in one. That isn't my piont. The point is we do not have scientific evidence of it and to think so is fallacious.

I still don't think you read enough of those links to call bull****. That's just your atheism talking and why I mentioned theism vs atheism. Regarding your last point, we do have scientific evidence and theories. What is in question is what is the best theory? The best one is the existence of afterlife based on how we have a sense of justice and can experience NDE. For example, the stimulation of the temporoparietal region of the brain produces OBE. Perhaps OBE serves some purpose before we die and move on the afterlife.

 

[james bond]

As I said pages ago, I've asked god to reveal himself to me and I got nothing. So your claim is a false one.


You keep avoiding the point for some reason and you keep avoiding any actual explanation for the things you posit as evidence for your god.


When you can demonstrate the existence of the creator you believe in with some evidence that actually makes some sense, then I might believe. I see no good reasons to believe in any creator god, otherwise.


I'm baffled as to how you got this out of our conversation when I just said that I don't claim to know things I don't have answers for. You claim to have answers as to how the universe got here, not I. Yet, you can't demonstrate the veracity of your claims.


The answers to such things require honest and rigorous investigation rather than just settling for some "god did it" answer, which in actuality isn't an explanation for anything at all.

Ok, false to you because of what I explained.

I can't comprehend for you. If that's what you think, then I can't add anything to it. You're entitled to your opinions.

Again, you missed what I said which explains why you keep saying your second claim above. It seems you and atheists want God from me, but I'm not the one who can provide it. Maybe start by referring to God instead of god and then He'll respond. Even I can sense the lack of sincerity.

I guess you don't read enough science to keep up with BBT, cosmology, abiogenesis (pseudoscience), existence of aliens and what not. Pretty limited scope you put out there for yourself. Further, I thought you had the capability ask yourself why we are here. Many intelligent people do that. I guess I misjudged you.

That's not what I said and did provide the evidence (til I am blue in the face), but again I'm not the one to change your mind. I think you and I are done since I misjudged you.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I still don't think you read enough of those links to call bull****. That's just your atheism talking and why I mentioned theism vs atheism. Regarding your last point, we do have scientific evidence and theories. What is in question is what is the best theory? The best one is the existence of afterlife based on how we have a sense of justice and can experience NDE. For example, the stimulation of the temporoparietal region of the brain produces OBE. Perhaps OBE serves some purpose before we die and move on the afterlife.

Read all but the ones that wouldn't load.Do you have an argument or point being made or do you just want to cry atheist wolf?

 

[james bond]

Read all but the ones that wouldn't load.Do you have an argument or point being made or do you just want to cry atheist wolf?

I give up on you ha ha.

 

[james bond]

I did enjoy an atheist movie last night. It's not really a non-religion movie. However, the director sounds like he is one or has become one from his comments (see below). I can tell you it's about a former tennis pro who thinks luck is the supreme circumstance in life. If there is no God, then it's Luck which determines one's life. It's a neo-noir movie.

In real life, God is the one who brings us good fortune, but one is not always fortunate either (psst.. both evidence of God ). It got good reviews and is from 2005. The first hour sets up the characters and circumstances. The last hour takes us into some twists and turns.

It's called Match Point.

"One reason for the fascination of Woody Allen's "Match Point" is that each and every character is rotten. This is a thriller not about good versus evil, but about various species of evil engaged in a struggle for survival of the fittest -- or, as the movie makes clear, the luckiest. "I'd rather be lucky than good," Chris, the tennis pro from Ireland, tells us as the movie opens, and we see a tennis ball striking the net - it is pure luck which side it falls on. Chris' own good fortune depends on just such a lucky toss of a coin." - Roger Ebert

Match Point Movie Review & Film Summary (2006) | Roger Ebert

“To you, I'm an atheist.
To God, I'm the loyal opposition.”
― Woody Allen

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I give up on you ha ha.

Sure thing. Have a good day.

 

[gnostic]

I'm baffled as to how you got this out of our conversation when I just said that I don't claim to know things I don't have answers for. You claim to have answers as to how the universe got here, not I. Yet, you can't demonstrate the veracity of your claims.

That sounds like just about every time JB post his replies here. A lot of claims, but no way for him to verify them.

 

[james bond]

The atheist director Woody Allen seems to be saying that "luck" is what determines an atheist's life.

If so, then what is luck?

Here is an example. An accountant is cheating on his company and takes a few dollars out every day and transfers it into his account. He is able to explain to everyone what the cost is and where it goes. It's only a few dollars, so it is not noticed right away. An auditor finds out and makes a report, but dies of a heart attack the day he is supposed to turn in his report. The cheater gets away with for fifty years and retires a wealthy man.

Or a man robs a AM-PM gas station. He takes a few hundred dollars, but on the way out he punches himself a lottery ticket and wins $100 million dollars. He is caught on tape for the robbery, but is able to hire a lawyer with his winnings to defend him to keep him out of jail. He ends up with an easy life.

Is luck the biggest factor to determine an atheist's life or is there something else?

 

[McBell]

The atheist director Woody Allen seems to be saying that "luck" is what determines an atheist's life.

If so, then what is luck?

Here is an example. An accountant is cheating on his company and takes a few dollars out every day and transfers it into his account. He is able to explain to everyone what the cost is and where it goes. It's only a few dollars, so it is not noticed right away. An auditor finds out and makes a report, but dies of a heart attack the day he is supposed to turn in his report. The cheater gets away with for fifty years and retires a wealthy man.

Or a man robs a AM-PM gas station. He takes a few hundred dollars, but on the way out he punches himself a lottery ticket and wins $100 million dollars. He is caught on tape for the robbery, but is able to hire a lawyer with his winnings to defend him to keep him out of jail. He ends up with an easy life.

Is luck the biggest factor to determine an atheist's life or is there something else?

Oh my.
You completely convinced me.
It was not luck at all...
It was God.
God (please note the capital "G") made sure the accountant got away with it!
God (please note the capital "G") made sure the thief got away with it!

 

[james bond]

Oh my.
You completely convinced me.
It was not luck at all...
It was God.
God (please note the capital "G") made sure the accountant got away with it!
God (please note the capital "G") made sure the thief got away with it!

To a Christian, this kind of immoral or illegal luck does happen but the thinking is it does not last. God brings misfortune as well, such as they make a mistake and get caught for cheating on their taxes. In other words, one makes a mistake or circumstances, i.e. luck changes, and they get caught.

I noticed that when you think it's something immoral or illegal that you attribute luck to God.

Here's another example. This happened to someone I knew from high school. A person could go to college, get a degree and nice paying job and retire comfortably. Another person flunks out of high school, but has the mechanical skills to start a gas station. He ends up owning a chain of gas stations and is successful beyond most college graduates in business and wealth.

So, is luck the ultimate life determining factor for an atheist? Some guys have all the luck? Some guys have all the pain?

 

[McBell]

To a Christian, this kind of immoral or illegal luck does happen but the thinking is it does not last.

My experience has been that Christians claim they will be punished in the next life....

God brings misfortune as well, such as they make a mistake and get caught for cheating on their taxes. In other words, one makes a mistake or circumstances, i.e. luck changes, and they get caught.

The point you seem to be missing is many a theist claim it is god or nothing.
meaning if it is not "luck" it has to be "god".
but that raises issues when it is pointed out people who do bad all their lives, die doing bad, turn all their fortunes they earned being bad to their heirs..

I noticed that when you think it's something immoral or illegal that you attribute luck to God.

Interesting how you notice something I did not do.
Even more interesting is how you seem to completely fail to understand the point.
Is it due to your over eagerness to stereotype atheists?

Here's another example. This happened to someone I knew from high school. A person could go to college, get a degree and nice paying job and retire comfortably. Another person flunks out of high school, but has the mechanical skills to start a gas station. He ends up owning a chain of gas stations and is successful beyond most college graduates in business and wealth.

In your opinion, the mechanic story is what, luck? god? hard work? what exactly?

So, is luck the ultimate life determining factor for an atheist?

Not this atheist.

Some guys have all the luck? Some guys have all the pain?

Hey, thats life.
Blame luck, blame god, in the end it matters not, cause it is what it is.

 

[james bond]

My experience has been that Christians claim they will be punished in the next life....


The point you seem to be missing is many a theist claim it is god or nothing.
meaning if it is not "luck" it has to be "god".
but that raises issues when it is pointed out people who do bad all their lives, die doing bad, turn all their fortunes they earned being bad to their heirs..


Interesting how you notice something I did not do.
Even more interesting is how you seem to completely fail to understand the point.
Is it due to your over eagerness to stereotype atheists?


In your opinion, the mechanic story is what, luck? god? hard work? what exactly?


Not this atheist.


Hey, thats life.
Blame luck, blame god, in the end it matters not, cause it is what it is.

For eternity. It's pain and suffering for those spirits who end up in hell. There are probably different levels of hell as that would seem more just. As for those who end up on earth that you refer to, I am not sure. St. Theresa has said she would like to help those spirits. It could be just like the world they're living in now.

You're missing the point. If God does not exist and this is all there is, then luck would be the main factor that determines one's situation in life. Are you unlucky, Mestemia? I would think lucky atheists would be the first to understand this. Yet, luck is not the same as happiness. According to atheists, luck was there when the Big Bag happened. Or else how can these random particles create an universe. Some atheists think universes can just pop into existence or we can go back into the past and change it. That would take another universe.

I didn't notice this. This is what one atheist director thinks. It's a valid idea for atheists. So what is luck? What causes great fortune to come to one while it does not come to another atheist? Certainly, this atheist director is better off in terms of luck than most. I would agree with that.

I'm not following you. What mechanic story?

Again, you're missing the point. It's good luck we are talking about mostly. If it's bad, then who does an atheist blame?

 

[McBell]

For eternity. It's pain and suffering for those spirits who end up in hell. There are probably different levels of hell as that would seem more just. As for those who end up on earth that you refer to, I am not sure. St. Theresa has said she would like to help those spirits. It could be just like the world they're living in now.

This is nothing more than your belief.
One i do not share with you.

You're missing the point.

I got the point.
YOU are missing the point.
MY point is that if god exists then it is god, not luck.
Which means god is rewarding some bad people for being bad.

If God does not exist and this is all there is, then luck would be the main factor that determines one's situation in life. Are you unlucky, Mestemia? I would think lucky atheists would be the first to understand this. Yet, luck is not the same as happiness. According to atheists, luck was there when the Big Bag happened. Or else how can these random particles create an universe. Some atheists think universes can just pop into existence or we can go back into the past and change it. That would take another universe.

Do you think luck is a sentient being?
Or more specifically, do you think atheists think luck is a sentient being?

I didn't notice this. This is what one atheist director thinks. It's a valid idea for atheists. So what is luck? What causes great fortune to come to one while it does not come to another atheist? Certainly, this atheist director is better off in terms of luck than most. I would agree with that.

You will need to define what you mean by "luck".
So far you seem to be all over the board with what you mean when you use the word.

I'm not following you. What mechanic story?

YOUR mechanic story in the post I quoted...

Another person flunks out of high school, but has the mechanical skills to start a gas station. He ends up owning a chain of gas stations and is successful beyond most college graduates in business and wealth.​

Again, you're missing the point. It's good luck we are talking about mostly. If it's bad, then who does an atheist blame?

I do not blame luck for either good or bad.
Just like I do not blame god for good or The Satan for bad.


The problem here seems to be that you are stuck on your narrow minded stereotype of what an atheist is.

 

[Shad]

To a Christian, this kind of immoral or illegal luck does happen but the thinking is it does not last. God brings misfortune as well, such as they make a mistake and get caught for cheating on their taxes. In other words, one makes a mistake or circumstances, i.e. luck changes, and they get caught.

I noticed that when you think it's something immoral or illegal that you attribute luck to God.

Here's another example. This happened to someone I knew from high school. A person could go to college, get a degree and nice paying job and retire comfortably. Another person flunks out of high school, but has the mechanical skills to start a gas station. He ends up owning a chain of gas stations and is successful beyond most college graduates in business and wealth.

So, is luck the ultimate life determining factor for an atheist? Some guys have all the luck? Some guys have all the pain?

That isn't luck since the person that flunked highschool still has a skill set that is useful in a free market. A skill set that involves a very common consumer product, vehicles, which require service, fuel, disposal, manufacturing, etc. This is a huge market.

 

[james bond]

This is nothing more than your belief.
One i do not share with you.


I got the point.
YOU are missing the point.
MY point is that if god exists then it is god, not luck.
Which means god is rewarding some bad people for being bad.


Do you think luck is a sentient being?
Or more specifically, do you think atheists think luck is a sentient being?


You will need to define what you mean by "luck".
So far you seem to be all over the board with what you mean when you use the word.


YOUR mechanic story in the post I quoted...

Another person flunks out of high school, but has the mechanical skills to start a gas station. He ends up owning a chain of gas stations and is successful beyond most college graduates in business and wealth.​

I do not blame luck for either good or bad.
Just like I do not blame god for good or The Satan for bad.


The problem here seems to be that you are stuck on your narrow minded stereotype of what an atheist is.

I'm looking at life from an atheist's pov. So you do not believe in luck as the main determinant in one's life? And are you saying that atheism is only one's belief?

There is no god. Those are false gods. God exists though. So are you attributing our lives to God?

To me, luck is a favorable outcome. The longer the odds of this outcome not happening instead of happening, the greater the luck. For example, I flip a two-sided coin; One side shows a head, the other side a tail. I want 100 consecutive heads to be the outcome. After several billions tosses, 100 consecutive heads comes up.

No, luck is not a sentient being. Why would I think atheists would think that?

See two paragraphs above.

Oh, the guy I knew from high school. Generally speaking, education is a determinant for success and wealth in one's life. However, there are exceptions and these exceptions could achieve greater success and wealth in their life. Why did this one mechanic reaps the rewards while others ended up toiling working for someone else. He was at the right place at the right time. One, he was able to purchase a small existing station from someone who wanted to sell. Two, he was able to purchase prime land and build a larger gas station in a busy intersection with the profits from the small business. This was before the advent of AM/PM or convenience stores being built along with pumping gas and offering auto repair service. It had two repair bays. Later, it changed to the convenience store format which made him even more money to invest in other convenience store gas stations. So, why did he succeed so wildly while another person would be fortunate to open one gas station and be profitable? One factor is he saved his money instead of spending it on women and good times like the other guys who quit school and became a mechanic. However, this would not explain his luck in being at the right place and right time.

>>I do not blame luck for either good or bad.
Just like I do not blame god for good or The Satan for bad.<<

It sounds like you want to keep bringing God or Christianity into this in order to be contrarian to whatever I state. I still do not think you understand what I am saying. Then how do you explain the good fortunes of this one mechanic? Other mechanics didn't save their money. Even if the ones that did, they did not reap the rewards this guy did. The key for him was being able to purchase the prime piece of land not that far from his small gas station.

Ha ha. Am I the one stuck or you being narrow-minded?