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Vengeful Gods Arise In Complex Societies?

Wu Wei

ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
We've got barely 5000 years of recorded History to work with, but it appears that vengeful gods are politically useful. I have thought of a couple of exceptions to your OP. First I think your size of 1 million is too large, and secondly I don't think that human sacrifice requires belief in vengeful gods.

I don't think you need a million people for that to be true. I think you only need enough for there to be political advantages. Bora Bora had 10,000 people, but it had human sacrifices and religious wars. Likely it was settled about 3,000 years ago by people from Taiwan. Taiwan may have had a larger population, so I can't say for sure that Bora Bora didn't get its religions from there. Its neighbor, Raiatea, was reputed to sacrifice a lot more people. I chalk all of this up to politics, but the religion is part of the sacrificing. This is a classic example of justifying the blood-thirst of a god.

Japan didn't have vengeful gods demanding sacrifice although it had the same religious problems as places that did. For millennia Japan was a place with a History of warfare with many fractious territories. They had executions which were many, but while these were religious in nature they were not called sacrifice. They were related to honor, and honor related to their beliefs about death. The closest thing to vengeful gods would have been demons, but their demons were blamed for evils not worshiped. Even so people were executed for religious reasons. The population was in excess of 1 million, yet there were no vengeful gods -- and yet religious executions appeared anyway.

Same can be said for Taoism and Buddhism in China. Or Buddhism in India. Had more that enough people, based on the article, to come up with vengeful Gods....but they didn't
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
The real God is stunningly holy and stunningly loving.

As long as you do not collect wood sticks on Saturday. One of the worst things you can do.

If you do, He might get a hissy fit. Better not be around when that happens.

Ciao

- viole
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
On a pragmatic level, a God that rewards good and punishes evil, especially if he is watching everyone, leads to better behavior between people, especially between groups and even nations. This allows complex societies with larger populations to develop.

However, this moral feature is only one aspect of a parent. Teaching children right from wrong is one aspect of the loving Father. Mercy and forgiveness are equally parts of our Father. This is why we address God as Avinu, referring to his mercy and forgiveness, and Malkenu, referring to his justice and judgment.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
On a pragmatic level, a God that rewards good and punishes evil, especially if he is watching everyone, leads to better behavior between people, especially between groups and even nations. This allows complex societies with larger populations to develop.

However, this moral feature is only one aspect of a parent. Teaching children right from wrong is one aspect of the loving Father. Mercy and forgiveness are equally parts of our Father. This is why we address God as Avinu, referring to his mercy and forgiveness, and Malkenu, referring to his justice and judgment.


Going along with a loving parent, A parent's love to protect a child they dearly love might look like something harsh towards things that threaten their child at times.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
I would love to see thst


One might scarcely die for a noble, good and just man, but what about a dying for a sinner or an enemy
and then making them a co heir of your estate?

Sounds like stunning love to me.

In fact showing mercy is near the apex of God's glory

Romans 5:7-8
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
One might scarcely die for a noble, good and just man, but what about a dying for a sinner or an enemy
and then making them a co heir of your estate?

Sounds like stunning love to me.

In fact showing mercy is near the apex of God's glory

Romans 5:7-8

Mercy? Murdering very human on the planet but a close buddy and his immediate family

Mercy? Murdering every first born child of egypt including innocent babies

Mercy? Ever watch a child die of leukemia?

You have a far different interpretation of the word mercy than i have
Here is the dictionary definition that i understand as mercy

Mercy : compassion or forgiveness shown towards someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm.

What is your definition?
 
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