Venezuela Blocking Humanitarian Aid

[suncowiam]

There was nothing in my post that was untrue and I find it interesting you conveniently left out my mention of political prisoners from Cuba, some could be jailed for simply criticising Castro. You are correct in saying this is going nowhere, your insistence in stroking your agenda makes honest discussion impossible. Paint away with your admittedly broad and general assumptions, it is of no concern to me.

Ok, so immigrants are political prisoners, murders, rapists and HIV infected. Is that a summary of your post?

It should concern you because I cited a series of studies that elevated such painting to be above assumptions. Did you not read it?

I'll be clear. My agenda particularly in this discussion is to ensure immigrants are not discriminated at. They are not only political prisoners, murderers, rapists or HIV infected. We have to consider each context before deciding further their status.

So when someone brings up the notion that we should help some of these immigrants, the immigrants should not be labeled as only political prisoners, murderer, rapists, or HIV infected. That is exactly my agenda. A sub agenda is to call out typical conservative fear mongering that helps demonize and discriminate immigrants.

 

[Stanyon]

A sub agenda is to call out typical conservative fear mongering that helps demonize and discriminate immigrants.

Even if you have to invent it, please point out where my statements were false.

 

[suncowiam]

Even if you have to invent it, please point out where my statements were false.

Partial truth is not the entire truth. I don't deny what you stated was true but let's clarify on thing first about your assertion.

Are you saying most or all immigrants can be considered as such?

Obviously there always be a percentage of any population to contain murderers, rapists and HIV infected. But I don't go around suggesting the non-immigrant population are murderers, rapist, and HIV infected knowing full well this is just a subset. To use it in a comment to try and prove a stance is quite dishonest when not considering the whole population of immigrants. So, I'm questioning the technical truth of your statement but the use of it when not disclosing all other relevant positions.

 

[Stanyon]

I don't deny what you stated was true

Thank you for your straight answer

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Funny you would post that sentence before the one I put in bold, I'm sure you remember Castro emptying his jails and sending to the U.S. not only political prisoners but those who were convicted of murder, rape, etc.
and this:
Already Reeling Venezuela Faces a New Challenge: An HIV Outbreak-Public Health Watch

On the Front Lines of Venezuela's Worsening HIV/AIDS Crisis | Americas Quarterly

Compassion, even if it kills us

What is this, the '80s? HIV isn't even that big of a deal anymore. It's a manageable chronic illness thanks to medicine now. You can live into old age with it, have children without transmitting it and be undetectable these days. The worst part of having HIV these days is the stigma against it propagated by the ignorant and callous.

 

[Stanyon]

What is this, the '80s? HIV isn't even that big of a deal anymore. It's a manageable chronic illness thanks to medicine now. You can live into old age with it, have children without transmitting it and be undetectable these days. The worst part of having HIV these days is the stigma against it propagated by the ignorant and callous.

At what cost? $20 billion annually because a small minority of people did not alter or use safe sex practices by choice HIV/AIDS was completely preventable.

From the CDC (Center for Disease Control):

What is ‘Ending the HIV Epidemic: A Plan for America’? | HIV.gov

"Since the late 1980s, enormous progress has been made in the fight against HIV, but there is still work to be done. The U.S. government spends more than $20 billion annually in direct health expenditures for HIV prevention and care."
"not everyone is benefiting equally from these advances. New infections are highly concentrated among men having sex with men; minorities, especially African Americans, Hispanics/Latinos, and American Indians and Alaska Natives; and those who live in the southern United States."

 

[suncowiam]

Thank you for your straight answer

Ok. That's great. Would you like to respond to the rest of my comments?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

At what cost? $20 billion annually because a small minority of people did not alter or use safe sex practices by choice HIV/AIDS was completely preventable.

From the CDC (Center for Disease Control):

What is ‘Ending the HIV Epidemic: A Plan for America’? | HIV.gov

"Since the late 1980s, enormous progress has been made in the fight against HIV, but there is still work to be done. The U.S. government spends more than $20 billion annually in direct health expenditures for HIV prevention and care."
"not everyone is benefiting equally from these advances. New infections are highly concentrated among men having sex with men; minorities, especially African Americans, Hispanics/Latinos, and American Indians and Alaska Natives; and those who live in the southern United States."

It's stigma and lack of education about these issues that are the cause of that. People still have this idea that HIV is some sort of punishment for misdeeds and treat HIV+ people as dirty or worthless. This negatively impacts people with HIV by causing them to fall into deep depression, feel worthless and/or suicidal, thinking they might be better off dead due to the messahes they get from people and society at large. This can make them sicker, not care about taking their meds, etc. (When you don't care about yourself, you're not likely to care about taking your medication or making other positive decisions.) Our society also doesn't want to have frank discussions about sexual health, sustance use and even rape because America is too backwards for that. There's also some cultural issues such as a homophobic macho urban culture among black and Latino men. A lot of them are on the down low and that often leads to risky behavior and not reaching out for health resources due to shame. That's not even getting into how our society views and treats injectable drug users (lower than garbage).

So if you want to change this and actually care, and are not just using this to fear-monger about people with HIV (which I view as evil since I have loved ones with HIV), then you better support efforts to change attitudes and have open discussions about this matter.

 

[Stanyon]

Our society also doesn't want to have frank discussions about sexual health

I agree, it would be considered homophobic if we really got down to discussing the real reasons behind the AID's explosion because it would demand some accountability from the very people who were the major cause of it. I had a thread deleted about a year ago even when I had the data to back up everything I said on this very issue, they were words of physicians, CDC data, etc. but somehow the truth and cold hard facts are not as important when discussing certain topics. What seems more important is everyone's feelings and how not to offend even if it is the truth, yet another example of how PC culture has helped destroy open and honest discussions about a lot of issues which I see as counter productive.

So if you want to change this and actually care, and are not just using this to fear-monger about people with HIV (which I view as evil since I have loved ones with HIV), then you better support efforts to change attitudes and have open discussions about this matter.

If relaying facts is evil then evil I am

 

[Stanyon]

Ok. That's great. Would you like to respond to the rest of my comments?

For what, I'd say you posted what you felt you needed from me but that isn't good enough is it?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I agree, it would be considered homophobic if we really got down to discussing the real reasons behind the AID's explosion because it would demand some accountability from the very people who were the major cause of it. I had a thread deleted about a year ago even when I had the data to back up everything I said on this very issue, they were words of physicians, CDC data, etc. but somehow the truth and cold hard facts are not as important when discussing certain topics. What seems more important is everyone's feelings and how not to offend even if it is the truth, yet another example of how PC culture has helped destroy open and honest discussions about a lot of issues which I see as counter productive.



If relaying facts is evil then evil I am

So you're not interested in actually making a positive change, I see.

 

[suncowiam]

For what, I'd say you posted what you felt you needed from me but that isn't good enough is it?

Ahhh... Ok, then. I will just conclude that you believe that most if not all immigrants are political prisoners, murderers, rapists or HIV infected. This is based on your unwillingness to further address your initial comments.

 

[Stanyon]

Ahhh... Ok, then. I will just conclude that you believe that most if not all immigrants are political prisoners, murderers, rapists or HIV infected. This is based on your unwillingness to further address your initial comments.

I knew it!

 

[suncowiam]

I knew it!

You knew what? What does this signify?