Various Titles for LHP, Luciferian and Satanist followers??

[oldbadger]

Various Titles for LHP, Luciferian and Satanist followers??
I need to post this thread in General Religious Debates because I hope that any/all members can reasonably respond if they want to. If any members want to rant against any of the above would they please do that in the bath, or when watching telly, anywhere but not here.

I hope that the Moderators will sort out any aggressive rants by any members.

Why do I want to do this? Well, I have recently posted threads seeking to discover the many differing Christian churches and Atheist groups and it seems a reasonable idea to include LHP folks's titles in a similar search.

Me? I don't know a thing about any of these groups and so I would like to see what answers return and be able to ask questions. I have read reports in the bible that Satan has done whatever God told him to, as in the Gospels and Job, etc..... but that's my total knowledge.

I hope that this 'goes' as well as those other two threads.

 

[oldbadger]

LUCIFERIAN (from wki)
Moving onwards......
So far no offers of enlightenment and so I thought that I might offer some ideas from good old Wiki.

So far, all I have read about is an introduction to Luciferianism. I'm pleasantly surprised to read that Luciferians tend to be strong with ecology and nature, support the sciences and arts and veer away from any tenets that lead to dogmatism, prejudice or the usual threats of eternal pain which can be found in some religions.

I have only chosen a very few sentences from wiki but you can read the lot from the link below this:-
Lucifer is a symbol of enlightenment, independence, and human progression and is often used interchangeably with similar figures from ancient beliefs, such as the Greek titan Prometheus or the Jewish Talmudic figure Lilith.
Luciferians generally support the protection of the natural world. Both the arts and sciences are crucial to human development and thus both are cherished. Luciferians think that humans should be focused on this life and how to make the most of it every single day. The ability to recognize both good and evil, to accept that all actions have both positive and negative consequences, and to actively influence one's environment is a key factor.
Traditional dogma is shunned as a basis for morality on the grounds that humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good. All ideas should be tested before being accepted, and even then one should remain skeptical because knowledge and understanding are fluid.

Here is the whole article:-

Luciferianism - Wikipedia

 

[crossfire]

LUCIFERIAN (from wki)
Moving onwards......
So far no offers of enlightenment and so I thought that I might offer some ideas from good old Wiki.

So far, all I have read about is an introduction to Luciferianism. I'm pleasantly surprised to read that Luciferians tend to be strong with ecology and nature, support the sciences and arts and veer away from any tenets that lead to dogmatism, prejudice or the usual threats of eternal pain which can be found in some religions.

I have only chosen a very few sentences from wiki but you can read the lot from the link below this:-
Lucifer is a symbol of enlightenment, independence, and human progression and is often used interchangeably with similar figures from ancient beliefs, such as the Greek titan Prometheus or the Jewish Talmudic figure Lilith.
Luciferians generally support the protection of the natural world. Both the arts and sciences are crucial to human development and thus both are cherished. Luciferians think that humans should be focused on this life and how to make the most of it every single day. The ability to recognize both good and evil, to accept that all actions have both positive and negative consequences, and to actively influence one's environment is a key factor.
Traditional dogma is shunned as a basis for morality on the grounds that humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good. All ideas should be tested before being accepted, and even then one should remain skeptical because knowledge and understanding are fluid.

Here is the whole article:-

Luciferianism - Wikipedia

This is a good description.

 

[oldbadger]

This is a good description.

Ah ha.. . A member who clearly knows something about all this. I know as much as I read about it this morning.... a proper tyro...

I must tell you, I am pleasantly surprised by the wiki description. I'm trying to think of a religion which supports ecology, life here, nature, freedom and open-mind such as I read about today.

I'm a Deist, but my values are not a million miles away from the above.

Can I ask you.... Do you believe in Lucifer as a being, and are there theist and atheist Luciferians?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'll respond when I'm off work.

 

[dybmh]

Lucifer is a symbol of enlightenment, independence, and human progression and is often used interchangeably with similar figures from ancient beliefs, such as the Greek titan Prometheus or the Jewish Talmudic figure Lilith.

The Talmudic figure Lilith is not a symbol of enlightenment, independence, etc. The legends of Lilith are macabre demon stories.

 

[crossfire]

Ah ha.. . A member who clearly knows something about all this. I know as much as I read about it this morning.... a proper tyro...

I must tell you, I am pleasantly surprised by the wiki description. I'm trying to think of a religion which supports ecology, life here, nature, freedom and open-mind such as I read about today.

I'm a Deist, but my values are not a million miles away from the above.

Can I ask you.... Do you believe in Lucifer as a being, and are there theist and atheist Luciferians?

I'm a non-worshipper. There is a strong tradition of being against worship in Luciferianism, which makes the question of theism/atheism moot. That is where the Luciferians I associate with draw the line--at non-worship--instead of at theism/atheism. Some other religions ascribe this rejection of worship as the Sin of Pride.

 

[Erebus]

The LHP is highly individualistic so you're going to get a lot of solitary practitioners and small groups each with their own take on things. I can list off some broad categories of what you might call Western LHP practitioners but it's worth keeping in mind that these will only give you the gist of what they're about. I'm also not going to delve into great detail about each group as that would take all day!

Atheistic Satanism:

These groups view Satan in a symbolic manner rather than believing he exists as a conscious being. LaVeyan Satanism is the classic example here, their official body is the Church of Satan though membership isn't mandatory for practitioners. LaVeyans generally endorse Libertarianism with a prominent Social Darwinist streak.

The Temple of Satan is another atheistic group, though their outlook is far more humanistic than the LaVeyans. They're probably most famous for protesting favouritism shown towards Christianity in the theoretically secular USA.


Theistic Satanism:

As the name implies, these groups view Satan as an actual being, although their views on precisely what his nature is will vary wildly. The Temple of Set is one example of a theistic group (though I'm not certain theism is actually a prerequisite for membership) who view the Egyptian deity, Set as the earliest representation of Satan. They seem to have structured themselves along the lines of 19th and early 20th century magical orders with members possessing various degrees within the organisation and an emphasis on esoteric knowledge.

Demonolatry is, as the name suggests, the worship of demons. While demonolaters can be atheists, it's far more common for them to be polytheists or pantheists. Most of the demons they worship are those listed in the Ars Goetia and Pseudomonarchia Daemonum though there are additions that seem to be exclusive to demonolatry.

Joy of Satan is ... interesting. Best I can tell, they're essentially an alien-based religion with a streak of Neo-Nazism. Satan and his demons along with God and his angels are seen as extra-terrestrial beings engaged in a war and humanity is caught in the middle of it ... at least, I think that's the gist of it.

On the subject of Neo-Nazism, there's also the Order of Nine Angles which was started either as a way to recruit occultists into Neo-Nazism or vice versa. These days it seems to be almost entirely an internet phenomenon with a heavy emphasis on trolling.


Other:

You already brought up Luciferianism, so I'll skip that.

Dark Paganism is a broad category covering Neo-Pagans who primarily focus on deities associated with darkness, death, war and so on. These sometimes get placed within the LHP umbrella though it's a little controversial. I would probably be classed as a Dark Pagan, though I don't consider myself a LHP practitioner.



Like I say, this is a very brief and incomplete list that's intended to give you a starting point. Hopefully it'll be useful to you!

 

[crossfire]

The Talmudic figure Lilith is not a symbol of enlightenment, independence, etc. The legends of Lilith are macabre demon stories.

Indeed, most Luciferians maintain the distinction between Lucifer and Lilith, or Lucifer and Satan, etc.

 

[oldbadger]

The Talmudic figure Lilith is not a symbol of enlightenment, independence, etc. The legends of Lilith are macabre demon stories.

I'm guessing that Lilith is another name for Lucifer?
Can you think of a macabra demon story example?

 

[oldbadger]

Indeed, most Luciferians maintain the distinction between Lucifer and Lilith, or Lucifer and Satan, etc.

Does this mean that there are Luciferians, Lilithians and Satanists, all separate from each other?

 

[oldbadger]

I'm a non-worshipper. There is a strong tradition of being against worship in Luciferianism, which makes the question of theism/atheism moot. That is where the Luciferians I associate with draw the line--at non-worship--instead of at theism/atheism. Some other religions ascribe this rejection of worship as the Sin of Pride.

Do Luciferians recognise some actions as 'sin'?

 

[oldbadger]

The LHP is highly individualistic so you're going to get a lot of solitary practitioners and small groups each with their own take on things. I can list off some broad categories of what you might call Western LHP practitioners but it's worth keeping in mind that these will only give you the gist of what they're about. I'm also not going to delve into great detail about each group as that would take all day!

Atheistic Satanism:

These groups view Satan in a symbolic manner rather than believing he exists as a conscious being. LaVeyan Satanism is the classic example here, their official body is the Church of Satan though membership isn't mandatory for practitioners. LaVeyans generally endorse Libertarianism with a prominent Social Darwinist streak.

The Temple of Satan is another atheistic group, though their outlook is far more humanistic than the LaVeyans. They're probably most famous for protesting favouritism shown towards Christianity in the theoretically secular USA.


Theistic Satanism:

As the name implies, these groups view Satan as an actual being, although their views on precisely what his nature is will vary wildly. The Temple of Set is one example of a theistic group (though I'm not certain theism is actually a prerequisite for membership) who view the Egyptian deity, Set as the earliest representation of Satan. They seem to have structured themselves along the lines of 19th and early 20th century magical orders with members possessing various degrees within the organisation and an emphasis on esoteric knowledge.

Demonolatry is, as the name suggests, the worship of demons. While demonolaters can be atheists, it's far more common for them to be polytheists or pantheists. Most of the demons they worship are those listed in the Ars Goetia and Pseudomonarchia Daemonum though there are additions that seem to be exclusive to demonolatry.

Joy of Satan is ... interesting. Best I can tell, they're essentially an alien-based religion with a streak of Neo-Nazism. Satan and his demons along with God and his angels are seen as extra-terrestrial beings engaged in a war and humanity is caught in the middle of it ... at least, I think that's the gist of it.

On the subject of Neo-Nazism, there's also the Order of Nine Angles which was started either as a way to recruit occultists into Neo-Nazism or vice versa. These days it seems to be almost entirely an internet phenomenon with a heavy emphasis on trolling.


Other:

You already brought up Luciferianism, so I'll skip that.

Dark Paganism is a broad category covering Neo-Pagans who primarily focus on deities associated with darkness, death, war and so on. These sometimes get placed within the LHP umbrella though it's a little controversial. I would probably be classed as a Dark Pagan, though I don't consider myself a LHP practitioner.



Like I say, this is a very brief and incomplete list that's intended to give you a starting point. Hopefully it'll be useful to you!

Wow! ..... Just, Wow!
I didn't expect anything like that list.

At the beginning of your post it looked as if the broad heading for all might be LHP, but that idea shattered when you explained that you, probably a Dark Pagan, do not consider yourself as a LHP practitioner .

Is there a broad title for all of those followings or are they all quite separate, and do they all acknowledge each other?

I need to read your post a few more times, Erebus, and then research those titles separately.

Thank you.

 

[Erebus]

Wow! ..... Just, Wow!
I didn't expect anything like that list.

At the beginning of your post it looked as if the broad heading for all might be LHP, but that idea shattered when you explained that you, probably a Dark Pagan, do not consider yourself as a LHP practitioner .

Is there a broad title for all of those followings or are they all quite separate, and do they all acknowledge each other?

I need to read your post a few more times, Erebus, and then research those titles separately.

Thank you.

No problem

In my experience, determining who counts as being Left Hand Path is a source of endless arguments. LaVeyans might say that theists can't be LHP by definition as they worship something other than themselves. Solitary practitioners might say that no true LHP practitioner would ever join a group. A few fringe elements insist that you can't be both LHP and a law-abiding citizen. Then of course you have a RHP/LHP split in some Eastern religions which doesn't necessarily align with its usage by various Satanists.

A lot of this comes down to the problem of whether you should use Left Hand Path to refer to a broad group of religions or whether it should refer to a particular mode of practice. If you do the former then you'll have edge cases, like Dark Paganism, where it sort of fits the general theme but isn't clear cut. If you do the latter then you need to determine what constitutes proper LHP practice ... which nobody seems to agree on.


It's a complete mess which is one of the reasons I don't apply the label to myself. I find it's far easier to just call myself a Pagan and leave it at that.

 

[dybmh]

I'm guessing that Lilith is another name for Lucifer?

Lilith comes from the hebrew word for 'nights'.

לילית - lilith

לילות - leilot

Can you think of a macabra demon story example?

The one I'm thinking of has her stealing infants. I'll if I can find it somewhere.

 

[crossfire]

Does this mean that there are Luciferians, Lilithians and Satanists, all separate from each other?

Satanists and Luciferians are certainly separate groups with different emphasis on different psychological and philosophical strategies. Luciferians generally use a broader range of archetypes than Satanists. Satanists are apt to call Luciferians "New-Agey."

I've never heard of a "Lilithian."

 

[crossfire]

Do Luciferians recognise some actions as 'sin'?

More like "skillful" or "unskillful" rather than "sin." One should learn from one's mistakes.

Luciferians do respect laws, however.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Okay, I'm free now. So I'm guessing the OP is asking how Left-Hand Pathers identify?

Well, the first thing to understand is that it's all highly individualistic. There is no dogma or creed in the LHP in general. It's ultimately up to you to decide what it means to you so you can't really generalize about much, although some groups like to ask like they own certain labels (like the dogmatic LaVeyans thinking they own the term "Satanism" and others thinking they own the copyright to other terms). Most mature individuals ignore this nonsense and do what they want. I personally don't care what anyone else thinks. I do not join groups or practice anything with others. In my experience, most organized LHP groups are cults and scams, anyway. I study and practice on my own. I can be called many things - Satanist, Luciferian, Heathen, etc. It all goes together in my mind. I am a polytheist, a pantheist and an animist. I do worship powers greatert thanI and seek their blessings. I believe Gods and Spirits are real beings.

As for Satan and Lucifer, I believe these are titles used that various beings may be called and also concepts. As for me, I go by energies and Satan and Lucifer elicit different energies.

I find Milton and Crowley to be far more Satanic than LaVey's milieu, just saying. As for Satanic music, I love Behemoth.

 

[oldbadger]

More like "skillful" or "unskillful" rather than "sin." One should learn from one's mistakes.

As a Deist I don't recognise the word 'sin' either.
And just wish that I had learned from mistakes more quickly, more memorably...

Luciferians do respect laws, however.

So far, with what little I know about all this, 'Luciferian' begins to surface as a kind of naturalist, ecologist, humanist person who is separated from indoctrinated religion, investigates by oneself and actually fits in to most communities with ease whilst being 'quiet', 'unnoticed'... reserved. Well, that's my first picture....... ready for any adjustment.

 

[oldbadger]

Okay, I'm free now. So I'm guessing the OP is asking how Left-Hand Pathers identify?

Well, the first thing to understand is that it's all highly individualistic. There is no dogma or creed in the LHP in general. It's ultimately up to you to decide what it means to you so you can't really generalize about much, although some groups like to ask like they own certain labels (like the dogmatic LaVeyans thinking they own the term "Satanism" and others thinking they own the copyright to other terms). Most mature individuals ignore this nonsense and do what they want. I personally don't care what anyone else thinks. I do not join groups or practice anything with others. In my experience, most organized LHP groups are cults and scams, anyway. I study and practice on my own. I can be called many things - Satanist, Luciferian, Heathen, etc. It all goes together in my mind. I am a polytheist, a pantheist and an animist. I do worship powers greatert thanI and seek their blessings. I believe Gods and Spirits are real beings.

As for Satan and Lucifer, I believe these are titles used that various beings may be called and also concepts. As for me, I go by energies and Satan and Lucifer elicit different energies.

I find Milton and Crowley to be far more Satanic than LaVey's milieu, just saying. As for Satanic music, I love Behemoth.

Thank you.
I am slowly getting the rough idea ....
Apart from those groups mentioned by @Erebus who involve themselves within esoteric skills and magic, and Laveyan churches of people, nearly all the Names so far seem to be about more solitary and submerged people who keep their religion/lifestyle to themselves or in very small cliques, following practices that may be quite unique to them. Is that about right?

As a very solitary person and Deist I realise that I am almost on some extreme edge of all this. Some folks have no real concept about what being 'solitary' in a crammed full environment actually is.
In my youth I used to row a tiny boat out to sea amongst sand backs that exposed at low tide and used to sleep on these under the upturned hull....... apart from fishing craft that got to know me, nobody ever knew what I did. I know what a loner can be like. People who did know me thought I was quite daft, probably was... but eventually I realised how totally mad mankind generally is. It's ok.

Please keep offering what information you can towards this thread. I don't know why this hasn't been discussed outside of DIRs before.