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vaping

pearl

Well-Known Member
Republican Gov. Charlie Baker made the announcement of a public health emergency Tuesday and said the ban would last through Jan. 25, 2020. It takes effect immediately.

"The use of e-cigarettes and marijuana vaping products is exploding and we are seeing reports of serious lung illnesses, particularly in our young people," Baker said in a press release. "The purpose of this public health emergency is to temporarily pause all sales of vaping products so that we can work with our medical experts to identify what is making people sick and how to better regulate these products to protect the health of our residents."

Massachusetts bans all vaping products for 4 months
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Here is a chart of the outbreak from the CDC. It is a recent phenomenon. I suspect it to be from vaping CBD and THC oils.
vape outbreak chart.png
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
But the cigarettes that kill 500,000 a year are just dandy... Irony... lol
I have to agree. If someone can kill themselves freely with actual tobacco, it makes no sense to ban vaping using the same metric. Ban both or neither.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I suspect these vaping bans are just attempts from big tobacco corporations to destroy the competition. Apparently all or most of these people who got sick were using homemade rigs and illegal synthetic THC products. See here:
The Facts on "Vaping-Related" Lung Illnesses & Deaths - American Vaping Association

The "for the kids" excuse is just some bs they use to distract the gullilbe. It's made for adults, not kids and you have to be an adult with an ID to buy them. Adults enjoy fun candy flavors, too.

This will just make more people go back to or start smoking. The brain dead moron governor in my state (DeWine) is thinking of banning them, too. So it's we see that both Dems and Reps are corporate whores who want to ban things based on nonsense. Oh, and these bans are destroying local businesses because these vaping companies and shops are usually locally owned small businesses. So don't believe any politician who supports these bans if they say they support local or small businesses. It's an outright lie.
 
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pearl

Well-Known Member
An outright ban will probably fuel the black market even more and escalate these injuries. :(

Possibly if the ban is renewed after the trial period. But the smoke shops are really hurting as vaping is a large chunk of their business, according to reports the ban emptied a lot of their shelves.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Here is a link to the CDC's website regarding this. They are calling it a "Lung Injury", fyi, not an illness.
How are you defining illness. Is pneumonia an illness?
It's also interesting that: "All reported patients have a history of e-cigarette product use or vaping." That means it's not affecting first time users.
But lots of dangerous chemicals and banned medications don't cause immediately obvious harm. Should something that kills you slowly or only occasionally not be regulated?
I have to agree. If someone can kill themselves freely with actual tobacco, it makes no sense to ban vaping using the same metric. Ban both or neither.
Tobacco and alcohol are do deeply embedded culturally that banning them would cause major social disruption. I think Baker's idea is to nip this vaping problem in the bud while it's still a novelty.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
How are you defining illness. Is pneumonia an illness?

I think it's important to note that this is not an infectious illness.

But lots of dangerous chemicals and banned medications don't cause immediately obvious harm. Should something that kills you slowly or only occasionally not be regulated?

At this point I think it needs to be researched. The root cause is still unknown. If someone smoked tobacco literally to death, the medical community would have a good understanding of the mechanisms involved. For this, the medical community does not have a clear answer. In the mean time, I have no problem with a ban on refillable oil cartridges since that appears to be one of the only common factors among all the reported cases.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
I have to agree. If someone can kill themselves freely with actual tobacco, it makes no sense to ban vaping using the same metric. Ban both or neither.

The cause and effect are entirely different. Carcinogens are dose dependent, over a period of years. This is not, so far, found to be the case with vaping. There is no 'tar' which destroys the longs of smokers. But there is nicotine, both in vaping and added to tobacco.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I have to agree. If someone can kill themselves freely with actual tobacco, it makes no sense to ban vaping using the same metric. Ban both or neither.

Beyond that there is no distinction between THC and regular vaping -- most if not all of the products were black market THC products. All the problems "vaping" were in the last year with vaping problems only being related to cases where people already had other health problems. (At 1-2 cases a year, btw... we have data on this for about ten years.) That means that statistically city air and a million of other things are more dangerous to your lung health.

Anyway, they found pesticides and vitamin E oil in the bootleg products and when vaped create cyanide. None of that is in normal products at all...
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Vaping is just stupid.

It sounds stupid and it looks stupid.

That said, it's just yet another socialist Democrat ban on things where they should just allow people to have their own personal choices as to what they would like to smoke.

In the meantime you can meet Big Tony in the alley by the door and he'll lead you into the vaping Den.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I just wanted to add that I vaped all the time for a couple of years when I was quitting. I never had any health problems at all. Never was gunked up or even coughed from it like I would from cigs. Only reason I stopped is because I lost the desire to do it. Now I don't use tobacco or nicotine at all. The smell of tobacco now makes me nauseated and irritates me, which is the normal non-smoker reaction to it (which tell you how bad and disgusting it is). So I was a success story.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Beyond that there is no distinction between THC and regular vaping -- most if not all of the products were black market THC products. All the problems "vaping" were in the last year with vaping problems only being related to cases where people already had other health problems. (At 1-2 cases a year, btw... we have data on this for about ten years.) That means that statistically city air and a million of other things are more dangerous to your lung health.

Anyway, they found pesticides and vitamin E oil in the bootleg products and when vaped create cyanide. None of that is in normal products at all...
So basically, all the problems are because of horrible home made unsafe varieties?
Seems like one should focus on incentivising people to buy “legit” vaping products, then.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Tobacco and alcohol are do deeply embedded culturally that banning them would cause major social disruption. I think Baker's idea is to nip this vaping problem in the bud while it's still a novelty.
I think it’s entirely hypocritical. If you were to ban vaping, ban tobacco. That stuff kills arguably a lot more people.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So basically, all the problems are because of horrible home made unsafe varieties?
Seems like one should focus on incentivising people to buy “legit” vaping products, then.

You can make vape juice at home perfectly safely at home, and I do. Secondly, it's likely the vitamin E oil (which is mostly soybean oil, generally) was used to infuse the THC into the mix -- this similar to using another fat like butter to extract the THC for weed brownies, etc. I'm no expert on their process, but my guess is they were heating the oil with the buds then strained off the sticks and ****. However, there would have been no reason to use anything but plain old vegetable glycerin for this purpose -- a product known to be safe to vape.

My guess is the insecticide contamination was accidental or unintentional, but when you make smoking products you cannot use conventional plant pesticides -- this might have been a rookie mistake. I can't see this being something that was done intentionally, nonetheless.
 
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