Value Judgements: Misotheism

[epronovost]

The act of Sacrificing a Sacred object is an act of Reverence and Worship in my tradition. And the more Sacred the item, the better. It goes to the Fire, so it goes to the Gods.

I think you confuse valuable with sacred unless your religion commands you to sacrifice something you worship to something else you worship since that's what sacred means.

Also, to change ones mind and views as one grows is not the indication of a passing "Fancy" either, it's an indication of growth and change.

You appear mighty pessimistic.

If you say it changes ''frequently'', then you are either very young or it's a fancy. A foundation of your entire belief system shouldn't be overturned frequently nor easily. That's of course unless you have yet to reach adulthood or gain some experience in life and are still maturing intellectually.

 

[The Hammer]

I think you confuse valuable with sacred unless your religion commands you to sacrifice something you worship to something else you worship since that's what sacred means.

If you say it changes ''frequently'', then you are either very young or it's a fancy. A foundation of your entire belief system shouldn't be overturned frequently nor easily. That's of course unless you have yet to reach adulthood or gain some experience in life and are still maturing intellectually.

"connected with God (or the gods) or dedicated to a religious purpose and so deserving veneration."

I think you are confusing things, as well, but that is ok. I have many many items that are Sacred and dedicated to various Religious purposes, they serve as loci of worship, and representations of Deity. I also Sacrifice these things when the time is right, by burning them in my Sacrificial fire pit that I have dedicated to the Gods.

As for Values/Views changing, that is not a sign of Immaturity, again it is a sign of the process of Maturity and Growth. Just because I value Nature, Gods, Honesty, Industriousness, and Wisdom now, does not mean I will in the future. And these very views and Values are tied to my Spiritual views.

 

[Vee]

The "hatred of God" or "hatred of the gods" (from the Greek adjective misotheos (μισόθεος) "hating the gods" or "God-hating" – a compound of, μῖσος, "hatred" and, θεός, "god").

Misotheism - Wikipedia

Is this a better way to describe those that are Militant Atheists? A Misotheist. This seems more appropriate in my eyes, but maybe not from an Atheist's perspective?

I just learned a new word!

 

[epronovost]

I think you are confusing things, as well, but that is ok. I have many many items that are Sacred and dedicated to various Religious purposes, they serve as loci of worship, and representations of Deity. I also Sacrifice these things when the time is right, by burning them in my Sacrificial fire pit that I have dedicated to the Gods.

That process is indeed a form of sacred worship and is, according to a ''militant atheists'', as completely absurd ''hocus pucus'', a scandalous waste of resources, time, money and efforts that could be employed more intelligently.

As for Values/Views changing, that is not a sign of Immaturity, again it is a sign of the process of Maturity and Growth.

Values changing is indeed a possible sign of growth and change (not always positive though), but core values changing FREQUENTLY as you mentionned, is a sign of immaturity and of fancy.

 

[The Hammer]

That process is indeed a form of sacred worship and is, according to a ''militant atheists'', as completely absurd ''hocus pucus'', a scandalous waste of resources, time, money and efforts that could be employed more intelligently.

Values changing is indeed a possible sign of growth and cange (not always positive though), but core values changing FREQUENTLY as you mentionned, is a sign of immaturity and of fancy.

And as I stated before, this seems unecessarily rude and hostile. To what end do you care where my finances go? If your concern is how a religious person spends their time, money, and resources; why not volunteer at a church as a financial advisor?

Sorry, if my views have changed "several" times throughout my 30 some odd years in this realm, maybe "frequent" was not the most accurate adjective, but your willingness to pick apart my linguistics is duly noted.

Edit: Also, as an added note, the Sacredness of an object is not tied to it's monetary worth. Many of these are things I collect or craft myself.

 

[epronovost]

And as I stated before, this seems unecessarily rude and hostile.

Well, wouldn't you say that "militant atheists" are, by definition, rude and hostile? That's basically what sets them apart from other atheists.

To what end do you care where my finances go? If your concern is how a religious person spends their time, money, and resources; why not volunteer at a church as a financial advisor?

That's precisely what "militant atheists" do. They try to deconvert people by criticising their "sacred cows" and produce information and educational on rationalism, naturalism, skeptical enquiries and general science.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The "hatred of God" or "hatred of the gods" (from the Greek adjective misotheos (μισόθεος) "hating the gods" or "God-hating" – a compound of, μῖσος, "hatred" and, θεός, "god").

Misotheism - Wikipedia

Is this a better way to describe those that are Militant Atheists? A Misotheist. This seems more appropriate in my eyes, but maybe not from an Atheist's perspective?

It does seem to cross the line over into that, as vocal anti-theists (because these aren't just atheists) do appear to spend much of their time obsessing over religion and whatever they think God is. They put actual religious people to shame with their devotion.

 

[The Hammer]

Well, wouldn't you say that "militant atheists" are, by definition, rude and hostile? That's basically what sets them apart from other atheists.

Well as I stated, that is my experience with this particular subset of persons. Whether or not that is the label they would choose for themselves idk? And whether or not this is you personally or you are playing into the stereotype, idk? My "militant atheist" friend, actually prefers to call himself an anti-theist. Either way, this post was meant to provoke discussion and not ruffle feathers.

Edit: Words (being vocal about something) doesn't change people's attitudes or minds, try action instead (like the Church Financial Advisor bit), you'll get more traction that way.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is this a better way to describe those that are Militant Atheists? A Misotheist.

It strikes me as being really, really stupid.

 

[The Hammer]

It strikes me as being really, really stupid.

Care to elaborate?

 

[epronovost]

Well as I stated, that is my experience with this particular subset of persons.

The only difference, I'd like to bring is that "militant atheists" aren't hateful toward deities. They don't believe in deities. They are hateful toward religious people, their beliefs and their practices which they perceive as really dumb.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Care to elaborate?

The characterization strikes me as mildly self-serving pop psychology in the service of ad hominem.

 

[The Hammer]

The characterization strikes me as mildly self-serving pop psychology in the service of ad hominem.

That makes complete sense to me.
Is self-serving pop psychology always abad thing, though? As long as it is being used for beneficial ends (like any tool)? Not everyone has access or will have access to official psychology, and this seems a substitute with a long history and fairly decent track record.

 

[The Hammer]

The only difference, I'd like to bring is that "militant atheists" aren't hateful toward deities. They don't believe in deities. They are hateful toward religious people, their beliefs and their practices which they perceive as really dumb.

Seems like an over-expenditure of energy on something that does not have to directly influence oneself (at least in the West). But you do you of course . I have just always found being hateful towards a group to be more tiring in the long run.

Tolerance goes much further. IMO.

 

[epronovost]

Seems like an over-expenditure of energy on something that does not have to directly influence oneself (at least in the West). But you do you of course . I have just always found being hateful towards a group to be more tiring in the long run.

Tolerance goes much further. IMO.

Well, hate is a viceral emotional reaction so of course it's not rational nor based on a strictly utilitarian framework. If hate was so easy to get rid off there would be far less hate in the world alas, forgiveness, temperance and tolerance are much easier to nurture when you live a prosperous and safe life.

 

[The Hammer]

Well, hate is a viceral emotional reaction so of course it's not rational nor based on a strictly utilitarian framework. If hate was so easy to get rid off there would be far less hate in the world alas, forgiveness, temperance and tolerance are much easier to nurture when you live a prosperous and safe life.

Hatred may be a visceral and irrational emotion (aren't they all irrational?). What you do with that Hatred is the Reaction that you can Control and be judged as positive or negative, depending on what you do with it.

But that's just my 2 pence.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

That makes complete sense to me.
Is self-serving pop psychology always abad thing, though? As long as it is being used for beneficial ends (like any tool)? Not everyone has access or will have access to official psychology, and this seems a substitute with a long history and fairly decent track record.

The problem I have is that the whole thing suggests a No True Scotsman Fallacy in the making.

Is it useful and/or meaningful to characterize [name of stalwart atheist] a God-hater?
Well, in his/her case no, but [name of stalwart atheist] is no true Militant Atheist.​

 

[The Hammer]

The problem I have is that the whole thing suggests a No True Scotsman Fallacy in the making.

Is it useful and/or meaningful to characterize [name of stalwart atheist] a God-hater?
Well, in his/her case no, but [name of stalwart atheist] is no true Militant Atheist.​

Maybe. But as much as I call Religious people who prosyletize, Zealots, who impose their views on others, I call Atheists that do the same Militant. Bone to pick aside with my language/attribution therof. This thread was to share a new term that I thought others might find interesting and/or useful.

 

[epronovost]

Maybe. But as much as I call Religious people who prosyletize, Zealots, who impose their views on others, I call Atheists that do the same Militant. Bone to pick aside with my language/attribution therof. This thread was to share a new term that I thought others might find interesting and/or useful.

Technically, a "militant atheist" would be an atheist who fight, in the literal sense of the term, for the cause of atheism, akin to a Crusader or a Jihadist for example. How would you personnaly call an atheist who would wage war against others in the name of atheism (aka people killing others because they are religious)?

 

[The Hammer]

Technically, a "militant atheist" would be an atheist who fight, in the literal sense of the term, for the cause of atheism, akin to a Crusader or a Jihadist for example. How would you personnaly call an atheist who would wage war against others in the name of atheism (aka people killing others because they are religious)?

A Culture war is psychological Battle nonetheless. So the same. Militant Atheist.