Vaccine Hesitancy and Herd Immunity

[Thief]

I saw a headline....the Russians are not lining up for the shot

 

[Revoltingest]

the scientists were all agreed

what stops the progress is the social fence
and the money trail

if science can fix it.....the rich get richer
and if science can fix the ailment.....the rich are first in line

the poor will continue to suffer

The poor...it's their lot in life to suffer.

 

[Vee]

What is it that makes so many people so very afraid as to behave this selfishly, in spite of the immense amount of knowledge about how small the risk really is?

You might want to ask what is making people distrust the leadership so much.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm finding it somewhat amazing that President Biden and endless numbers of others are begging and pleading with Americans to get vaccinated against COVID-19, and yet it appears that some 30% of Americans are still holding back.

There used to be a time when the nation was in danger, people pulled together. Nations sent the young men and women off to war at immensely greater risk, and many of them lost lives and limbs -- and we honour them every Veterans Day (or Rembrance Day in other nations), but nearly a third of Americans won't take a one-in-several-million (and therefore TINY) risk in order to help the nation reach "herd immunity" and get past this virus.

What is it that makes so many people so very afraid as to behave this selfishly, in spite of the immense amount of knowledge about how small the risk really is?

I've felt the same sentiment many times over the last year.

I remember listening to my grandparent's tell stories about rationing and sacrificing "luxuries" during WWII and I can't helping thinking that if WWII broke out today how doomed we would be because everybody would be crying about their "freedoms" and whining about being told what to do instead of pulling together to fight a common enemy.

Have these people stopped to consider what we're going to do if we can't reach herd immunity? I mean, these are the same people complaining about businesses being forced to close and the economy taking a hit, and so forth with the lockdowns and stuff, without stopping to realize that masking, social distancing and finally vaccination will be the things that will help us get back to some kind of normal.

 

[Thief]

where I live.....I went to buy tires
no one was wearing a mask
when I asked if I should.....No....we are over it

when I went to get my oil changed (different shop)
no one was wearing a mask

so forth and so on

looks pretty normal around here

 

[Revoltingest]

where I live.....I went to buy tires
no one was wearing a mask
when I asked if I should.....No....we are over it

when I went to get my oil changed (different shop)
no one was wearing a mask

so forth and so on

looks pretty normal around here

Oh, that'll turn out well.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can see why 30% are hesitant.

I don't.
These vaccines were based on vaccines for other covid viruses so the aren't entirely new.
The mRNA vaccines do not alter our DNA.
There are no microchips in them.
We aren't guinea pigs with them as they have been tested in many for well over a year now.
They aren't made with aborted fetus cells.
The risks of these vaccines are very minimal. Covid 19 is more dangerous than tobacco.
Our actions are not contained in a vacuum and the consequences of our decisions and actions often extend beyond us.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You might want to ask what is making people distrust the leadership so much.

The seemed to have no problems trusting Trump, the man who told them covid 19 is a democrat hoax, the case load would be zero, no deaths, totally contained, not an issue.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't.
These vaccines were based on vaccines for other covid viruses so the aren't entirely new.
The mRNA vaccines do not alter our DNA.
There are no microchips in them.
We aren't guinea pigs with them as they have been tested in many for well over a year now.
They aren't made with aborted fetus cells.
The risks of these vaccines are very minimal. Covid 19 is more dangerous than tobacco.
Our actions are not contained in a vacuum and the consequences of our decisions and actions often extend beyond us.

The rest I'm not sure the connection, but it's everywhere. The majority is a lot of times blind to the minority's point of view. But in this case regardless ones opinions, you literally can't miss it.

Try to bypass it on RF. They eat you like wolves.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I was not going to be vaccinated, thinking it would cost me around 100$. I didn't get out much and wore masks, so its not like was going to be a super spreader. I had other excuses, too; such as believing I'd already had the virus. But someone at Walmart pharmacy got me to take the shot. It was free. I hated shots but had no more excuses.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't.
These vaccines were based on vaccines for other covid viruses so the aren't entirely new.
The mRNA vaccines do not alter our DNA.
There are no microchips in them.
We aren't guinea pigs with them as they have been tested in many for well over a year now.
They aren't made with aborted fetus cells.
The risks of these vaccines are very minimal. Covid 19 is more dangerous than tobacco.
Our actions are not contained in a vacuum and the consequences of our decisions and actions often extend beyond us.

It's useful to be able to see / understand reasons
one nonetheless disagrees with. This is a sign of
enlightenment, wisdom, & intelligence....except
in Scots.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's useful to be able to see / understand reasons
one nonetheless disagrees with. This is a sign of
enlightenment, wisdom, & intelligence....except
in Scots.

I struggle to understand these fears as we have sufficient data that strongly demonstrates these fears are misplaced and not based on reality.
It's like someone insisting its a dark night even though the sun is currently shinning bright.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The rest I'm not sure the connection, but it's everywhere. The majority is a lot of times blind to the minority's point of view. But in this case regardless ones opinions, you literally can't miss it.

Try to bypass it on RF. They ear you like wolves.

Yeah, the views that deny evolution and promote young earth creationism are also unfortunately widespread and is itself also commonly believed enough to have disastrous ends (like teaching religious mythos as accepted science in a science class, which does ill prepare students for college amd careers where such silliness is inappropriate).
Doesn't matter what the majority believes when we have facts to solidly demonstrate the beliefs are false and misplaced.

 

[Vinayaka]

The cynic in me sees a long term positive outcome: It will increase the intelligence in our gene pool, over time.

 

[Revoltingest]

I struggle to understand these fears as we have sufficient data that strongly demonstrates these fears are misplaced and not based on reality.
It's like someone insisting its a dark night even though the sun is currently shinning bright.

Misplaced fears are still worth understanding.
This can aid in allaying them.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yeah, the views that deny evolution and promote young earth creationism are also unfortunately widespread and is itself also commonly believed enough to have disastrous ends (like teaching religious mythos as accepted science in a science class, which does ill prepare students for college amd careers where such silliness is inappropriate).
Doesn't matter what the majority believes when we have facts to solidly demonstrate the beliefs are false and misplaced.

But beliefs are just that. They can't be "universally" right or wrong in itself; no such thing. Not taking the vaccine because of side effects isn't right or wrong for example. The stats favor side effects are minimal but that shouldn't devalue that person's decision to choose based on that min.

People know thousands of people died and they know majority takes it cause they dont want to spread covid. That's justified. Being hesitant after knowing these justified reasons doesn't make their decision to not take it isn't right or wrong.

Their beliefs are justified just as yours. You choose based on the same info you do.

Beliefs aren't facts. People do know. They are smart. They do care about others. They choose not to take the vaccine.

Not right or wrong unless you're building a criteria for others you disagree with where it would be rude to do. Placing criteria on others morality if is not right in my opinion. Not the world's.

Doctors know this (if they follow sound medical ethics). Even the law.

Why don't you guys?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

But beliefs are just that. They can't be "universally" right or wrong in itself; no such thing. Not taking the vaccine because of side effects isn't right or wrong for example. The stats favor side effects are minimal but that shouldn't devalue that person's decision to choose based on that min.

People know thousands of people died and they know majority takes it cause they dont want to spread covid. That's justified. Being hesitant after knowing these justified reasons doesn't make their decision to not take it isn't right or wrong.

Their beliefs are justified just as yours. You choose based on the same info you do.

Beliefs aren't facts. People do know. They are smart. They do care about others. They choose not to take the vaccine.

Not right or wrong unless you're building a criteria for others you disagree with where it would be rude to do. Placing criteria on others morality if is not right in my opinion. Not the world's.

Doctors know this (if they follow sound medical ethics). Even the law.

Why don't you guys?

It may be that we can accept that others' beliefs as are valid as our own, but it may not be true that they are equally justified. The fact is, there is something to be said for actually having knowledge -- to use what is known, rather than what is simply surmised for whatever reason -- to inform our beliefs. As I've pointed out before, our beliefs inform our behaviours, but if someone believes that another person is the devil incarnate, they will not be excused for attempting to murder that person. .

In this case, protecting the health and often lives of other Americans may well depend on having a sufficient number of every community vaccinated, and the higher the number of those who refuse vaccination, the higher the likelihood that they virus will remain and continue to infect and continue to harm the economy and well-being of many, many people.

There are times in life, I think, when it is correct to "take one for the team."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It may be that we can accept that others' beliefs as are valid as our own, but it may not be true that they are equally justified. The fact is, there is something to be said for actually having knowledge -- to use what is known, rather than what is simply surmised for whatever reason -- to inform our beliefs. As I've pointed out before, our beliefs inform our behaviours, but if someone believes that another person is the devil incarnate, they will not be excused for attempting to murder that person. .

The thing is, both sides are basing "truth" on their own criteria and not the person who states their belief(s) about this topic (and others). Respecting other's beliefs and then insulting them because they don't align with one's own justification is a hypocritical gesture.

Do you believe that both people who take or don't take the vaccine are equally justified in the truth with the same knowledge just walked away with differing conclusions?

But the problem isn't a bad/good or evil/divine comparison. It's just making two opposing decisions based on the same information presented. So, each person has their own personal criteria to derive at their decisions and each person's decisions need to be respected and not devalued.

No one is attempting to murder a person (or doing anything to a person) by his or her decisions. That's kind of like saying "my criteria for my decisions are better than yours" even though we had the same info (forgive the "isolated" comparison: same bible, different interpretations leading to opposing actions...and the is, both sides feel they are in their right).

In this case, protecting the health and often lives of other Americans may well depend on having a sufficient number of every community vaccinated, and the higher the number of those who refuse vaccination, the higher the likelihood that they virus will remain and continue to infect and continue to harm the economy and well-being of many, many people.

That would mean your criteria for truth is right because you care for people's health while those who make the opposite decision do not?

There are times in life, I think, when it is correct to "take one for the team."

In some topics, it's highly cultural differences. Though, America made taking the vaccine more promotional, coercive, and the majority of public attitude against people not taking the vaccine in my opinion seem to be the result of this. I think UK is also having the same "issues" with not taking the vaccine but I haven't heard in the US having riots over it as they did over there.

Covid skeptics and anti-vaxxers clash with police at London protest

I'd say these are antivaxxers, but those who just decide not to take it and are indifferent to the politics shouldn't be lumped into this nonsense.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But beliefs are just that. They can't be "universally" right or wrong in itself; no such thing. Not taking the vaccine because of side effects isn't right or wrong for example. The stats favor side effects are minimal but that shouldn't devalue that person's decision to choose based on that min.

There is a social responsibility so this thing gets under control and to minimize the overall risk we all face of this virus mutating and being able to bypass the vaccines (as the mutations that have already been produced have proven more contagious and deadly than the original).
And I'm not talking about beliefs. I am talking about facts. 2+2 will always equal 4. This doesn't change. And when it comes to health, many things are not beliefs. Such as, masks have been so rigorously studied over the past year that we do know they work to curve the spread of Covid-19. Because of anti-vaxxers vaccines have been so extensively studied we know they are very safe just about everyone save for those allergic or other rare conditions that make it so someone can't be vaccinated. In that case, this person's health, well being, and life depends on others to be vaccinated and not carrying diseases this person cannot be vaccinated for. There are those who are immunocompromised. They too depend on us being vaccinated and not carrying diseases they can easily catch.
And then there are more consequences yet. Like for those working in the health field. Everyone going on about "me" and making excuses and this and that and downplaying the science and taking dumb risks have plunged thousands of healthcare workers into a never ending and inescapable nightmare where many have been forced to make decisions they should never have been put into the position to even have to consider in the first place. Critical care is something that should have remained in their ethics discussions in school, but people who want to doubt, deny, complain, and cry, and go on about "me, me, me, me" have brought a terrible reality to healthcare workers who were forced to decide who lives and who dies.
This is what people who won't wear a mask are doing. This is the world they are creating. Along with those who doubt and deny the science. Along with those who won't get vaccinated.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Misplaced fears are still worth understanding.
This can aid in allaying them.

I can go on at length about fears I do not understand (such as people blowing head gaskets over transgender people using the bathroom of their identity, but not a peep about male janitors in there, even though some have planted hidden cameras in them).
I can know what the reasons given are, but it's just not something I understand given the lack of evidence to support their fears. Like thunderstorms. I don't get why some people, especially adults, are afraid of them. They don't really do anything or hurt us. I've heard reasons, but it's never been (in real life that I've met) having been struck by lightning.
I don't understand fears of flying either. Complaints of discomfort and mistreatment from TSA, yes, that does happen and is a thing. But flying itself, especially on commercial lines where they have Uncle Sam watching over their backs, are very rarely disastrous, hardly ever end in a crash, and go years without a single death. But why people are so afraid I just don't get it. Cars and other similar motor vehicles are what should scare them (especially other drivers).