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Utopia

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Curious George, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    If you were tasked with designing a utopia, could you do it?

    What size of population would you want? What size of land and type terrain/ climate would you want? What sort of rules would you create? What sort of hierarchy? What values would you emphasize? How would you interact with other groups of people? What sort of emigration/immigration policies would you have? What sort of knowledge would you cultivate? How wpuld you deal with crime?
     
  2. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    The problem you would have is that one persons Utopia is another person's worst nightmare.

    My Utopia would be loud rock music on demand; no religious influence or meddling; a world without conflict; no childhood mortality...
     
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  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I will give this a try, but I cannot guarantee a permanently stable utopia. That will be up to the people in it. For what its worth I enjoy designing utopias. What I propose is an imperfect utopia with a way to leave and return and a way to make more utopias. You could think of it as a house with a door. Any utopia is, after all, a type of prison. How can you make it better but by leaving the door open?

    In our utopia we would have enough programmable robots to handle farming, construction and all other physical tasks. Humans would not be allowed to work except for programming, entertainment or volunteer work. There would be no other paid work. I don't know what kind of pay or how to motivate, but unhappy people could always leave. We'd get our work done through programming the machines, and everyone would have access to at least enough machines and property for their needs. This would be ironclad and handled automatically. No physical labor within the system, at least not in the first utopia.

    Our utopia would fork every hundred years or so, and at that time there would be opportunity to redesign some of the system except for the right to leave and return. After a fork the number of utopias (again think of them as houses) would be increased. Anyone could join or leave, and so there would be choice. The laws, the levels and ways could be reviewed, so people would have the opportunity to implement changes. A fork could be forced early if people kept choosing exile. Over time more and more utopias would exist.

     
    #3 Brickjectivity, Nov 26, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  4. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    there is a tv series that thrives on your questions....
    It's called.....the 100

    five seasons worth
    all about the give and take of immediate levels of control
    and then again at multiple levels other than human

    see Netflix
     
  5. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    It would require technology which has not yet been invented, but it would involve holodecks, replicators, and warp power technology, among other things.
     
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  6. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    How would you create such a utopia?
     
  7. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    I like it. But such a utopia cannot be realized until there are robots to do all physical work, correct? Is this a vegetarian utopia? What starting population would be needed? What about crime (does that just lead to exile)? What about immigration? Land size? Climate?
     
  8. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    I prefer documentaries or movies if I watch Netflix. Series writing is always done without proper closure unless the series has a firm ending that was planned (few do). But I will check it out.
     
  9. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Replicators would be an innovation that did most of the work erasing problems, I think.
     
  10. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    I'm happy with the one that God did already.
     
  11. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Turn my stereo up.

    Oh, I didn't think it was serious
     
  12. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Not too serious. But I saw an interesting video on ethnic enclaves. One of the areas was a leftover from a group that tried to create their own utopia. Made me think of how many people have ideals which they think would create ideal societies. I wondered what would be necessary and if people thought they could create one if they were given the chance. I understand your answer to mean that you could not (or at least cannot entertain such an endeavor).
     
  13. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    I think getting rid of religious influence is achievable, after all many European countries already have that. Eradicating child mortality is a goal that must be constantly sought and we must for ever strive to get there, probably without ever totally succeeding.
    World peace, currently no chance with the warmongers who are in charge.
    Loud rock music...that was somewhat tongue in cheek.
     
  14. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    I was thinking for your own enclave. A spot in the world of some size filled with some number of people governed by some rules (or not) that would fit the bill of utopia for you.
     
  15. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Nope. I would put forward the very concept is nonsense outside a God context ergo a fantasy.
     
  16. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Certainly perfection is unachievable when so many complex factors are at play. That shouldn't deter us for striving toward such goals.
     
  17. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    If the goal is unrealistic why strive for it? Waste of time and resources.
     
  18. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I had originally included some directives on these subjects but cut back.

    The first utopia will not be vegetarian. That will be an option for a future one. There will however be no reason for pain or cruelty to animals. Anyways meat can be grown in labs.

    Policing will be volunteer based, however the AI over the utopia will prevent most crimes. Police will be volunteers, but those who are doubting the reality of society will be encouraged to try police work over exile. The police will hopefully become more like Psychologists than beat cops, but they will also act as detectives and to some degree as journalists. They will be in a position to keep the populace informed if something should go wrong. They will be in less of a position to act like modern police. With the AI watching they won't have much opportunity to intimidate.

    Police will patrol the utopia but also some exilic areas. Some exilic areas will not be patrolled. There will always be places that are unwatched, and that's to keep Utopia a happy place and maintain autonomy for people. I expect a lot of people will choose exile for long periods of their lives.

    Crime will not be handled with exile. It will simply isolate individuals, and they will have a record. Remember that Utopia is already a type of prison. Most people just won't have the opportunity to commit crimes in the utopia. This is a watched society, monitored by a non-human AI intelligence. They can leave if they wish.

    Land size is infinite. Climate is whatever the weather does but very nice when indoors. Immigration is not a factor, because anyone may join or leave Utopia.

    In the event that exiled areas become too hostile, more can be created with the creation of a new utopia. That forking event can fix a lot of problems.
     
  19. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Because amelioration is still possible.
     
  20. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    We are not longer talking about utopia.

    Do not confuse my rejection of utopia as a refusal to improve anything.
     
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