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Use of the word: marriage

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
It would be easier and more effective to just get rid of the word "marriage" to describe our unions, and just call everything civil unions or some such thing.

The word "marriage" cannot mean anything other than heterosexual unity. "Gay marriage" is technically incorrect, and untrue to the etemology of the word, and historical and legal usage. That's one reason why Obama was able to say that he doesn't want to redefine marriage, because he can't. It's like the court ruling that a circle must have three sides, or a triangle have four corners.

I have to respectfully disagree. Women in marriages are still called "wives." Now how has THAT term been re-defined? Terms like property procurement and dowries come to mind here........... ;)

Nowadays, a wife is more of a companion, but married women never changed the title.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Or in the same way that oxygen is found in all acids? ;)

The "correctness" of language is determined by use and acceptance.

I certainly agree. But we cannot slip into useless, illogical nonsense.

"Marriage" is a form of the word "matrimony," the combination of a root "matri" which means 'mother' and 'mono' which means 'one.' It's a male-centered word which resists all attempts of freedom from patriarchy and heterosexual unity. It's simply intellectually dishonest to apply it to anything else - like calling a square a triangle...
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Does "sinister" still mean "left," AE?

Yes, I'm painfully aware of left-handed maladroits.:D
..

You make a good point, but the word "left" has freed itself from the Greek and Latin roots that divide the left and right hand into maladriot and adriot. Maladriot, which was associated with the left hand in Greek thought, is still 'sinister', and forever will be associated with that idea, because its usage has permanence in the history of languages. As we create new words, we use Latin roots that have a scope of meaning. "Mal" still means "bad" and "driot" still means "able" as they are used in different combinations to create new words.

"Marriage" is the combination of two fundamentally basic concepts that cannot be stretched to mean anything else.
 
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DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Dont words sometimes "evolve" to mean more than they origianlly did?

Even the word "gay"..I dont think originally defined a homosexual..The word adopted a new..or expanded meaning..

Why should it be any different with the word marriage..???

Love

Dallas
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
"Marriage" is the combination of two fundamentally basic concepts that cannot be stretched to mean anything else.

Um...sure, they can, and they are. It doesn't matter where the word came from. Storm gave a good example, and just the word "God" is a great example. Every word came from some root meaning something. In time most words have changed meanings a bit.

A great example is "literally". I cannot stand when people use it incorrectly. When someone says "Peyton Manning is literally on fire!", it makes me want to kill someone. And yet, I know that 50 years from now, "literally" will be generally accepted as a synonym for "really". It doesn't matter where it comes from, it only matters what's accepted. Language is about communication, after all.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Dont words sometimes "evolve" to mean more than they origianlly did?

Even the word "gay"..I dont think originally defined a homosexual..The word adopted a new..or expanded meaning..

Why should it be any different with the word marriage..???

Love

Dallas

Sure. My argument is that the word "marriage" is too fundamentally associated with its roots. To express a more nuanced meaning, a new word must be used. The best example is trying to define a square as anything other than having four sides. It can't be done. The word "square" is too closely associated with its roots.

Or "bicycle" - "two wheels." If it has three wheels, the two roots "bi" (two) and "cycl" cannot be combined together to describe anything but the two-wheeled thingy.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Um...sure, they can, and they are. It doesn't matter where the word came from.

Yes, people can do whatever they want to do, and meaninglessly and thoughtlessly use whatever word they want without making sense of anything. I grant that.

People can look at a bird and call it a tree.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Sure. My argument is that the word "marriage" is too fundamentally associated with its roots. To express a more nuanced meaning, a new word must be used. The best example is trying to define a square as anything other than having four sides. It can't be done. The word "square" is too closely associated with its roots.

Or "bicycle" - "two wheels." If it has three wheels, the two roots "bi" (two) and "cycl" cannot be combined together to describe anything but the two-wheeled thingy.

I see..that makes perfect sense...Its kind of like the words "male or female"..They are too rooted in their meaning to ever be expanded to mean anything else..

But having said that..the word marriage IMHO is more flexible..For instance that word is even used sometimes as a cooking term..The flavors "marry"..or the "marriage between this spice and that create a certain type of flavor..

Its used as a more general term of uniting or putting together..2(or more) ingredients..nothing to do with people..let alone a male and female ...

Am I making sense here?

Love

Dallas
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Sure. My argument is that the word "marriage" is too fundamentally associated with its roots. To express a more nuanced meaning, a new word must be used. The best example is trying to define a square as anything other than having four sides. It can't be done. The word "square" is too closely associated with its roots.

Or "bicycle" - "two wheels." If it has three wheels, the two roots "bi" (two) and "cycl" cannot be combined together to describe anything but the two-wheeled thingy.
With all due respect, I think that's a rather pedantic way of looking at it.

If someone says "Gay marriage" everybody knows exactly what they mean. Just like 99% of Americans for some reason say "I could care less" when they mean "I couldn't care less" - I still understand exactly what they mean, despite them saying precisely the opposite.
Heck, even the word gay didn't mean homosexual for 95% of the time it has existed, yet if a person says they're gay nowadays you don't assume they are expressing how happy they are, or do you A_E?
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
But having said that..the word marriage IMHO is more flexible..

Yeah, "marriage" has an indivisible relationship to family and commitment and there has forever been a parallel to it among homosexual couples (whether openly or behind closed doors). But it's technically imprecise to call it the same thing.

"Gay marriage" is more of an emotional appeal than an intellectual one, I just think that it is more precise to go the other way. Get rid of "marriage" and just call everything "unions" and people can then go on to whatever they want to call it. Pea soup or whatever.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Yes, people can do whatever they want to do, and meaninglessly and thoughtlessly use whatever word they want without making sense of anything. I grant that.

People can look at a bird and call it a tree.

But bird and tree are nouns..

Marriage is more of an action word ..A state of being..Is it not?

As well as marriage isnt permenent(at least it doesnt have to be)..A bird will always be a bird..and a tree will always be a tree..But a marriage can be disolved to no longer be a marriage..its a state of being or the status of a person..

Again I hope Im making sense..

Love

Dallas
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
"Marriage" is a form of the word "matrimony," the combination of a root "matri" which means 'mother' and 'mono' which means 'one.' It's a male-centered word which resists all attempts of freedom from patriarchy and heterosexual unity. It's simply intellectually dishonest to apply it to anything else - like calling a square a triangle...

Etymology Online disagrees with you:

1297, from O.Fr. marier, from L. maritare "to wed, marry, give in marriage," from maritus "married man, husband," of uncertain origin, perhaps ult. from "provided with a *mari," a young woman, from PIE base *meri- "young wife," akin to *meryo- "young man" (cf. Skt. marya- "young man, suitor"). Said from 1530 of the priest, etc., who performs the rite.
Apparently, the word "marriage" has youth wrapped up in its meaning as well, yet we still apply the term to elderly married people. Is it intellectually dishonest for us to do that?

And, like I alluded to before, "oxygen" literally means "acid creator". It comes from the root words "oxys", meaning "acid" and "-genes" meaning "creation" or "formation". Is it intellectually dishonest to apply the word "oxygen" when it produces non-acidic compounds?

Plenty of words have changed over time. How about "without" (once meaning only "outside", but now meaning "lacking")? How about "key" (which once only referred to a physical object, but now applies equally to electronic bits of data that metaphorically fulfil a similar function to a physical key)? How about "gopher" (once only meaning a burrowing rodent, but now also means a menial assistant)?
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I have to respectfully disagree. Women in marriages are still called "wives." Now how has THAT term been re-defined? Terms like property procurement and dowries come to mind here........... ;)

Nowadays, a wife is more of a companion, but married women never changed the title.

*ahem*

If we are going to continue linking legal governmental terms to cultural and etymology of words, then can we please revisit the evolution of the word - wife?

I know you'd have a fit if we tried to deconstuct the term "daddy" into meaning that you literally had to be responsible for all our creation, and that we all are legal heirs to your property and insurance.

:curtsy:
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
But bird and tree are nouns..

Marriage is more of an action word ..A state of being..Is it not?

As well as marriage isnt permenent(at least it doesnt have to be)..A bird will always be a bird..and a tree will always be a tree..But a marriage can be disolved to no longer be a marriage..its a state of being or the status of a person..

Again I hope Im making sense..

Love

Dallas

I dunno... it seems to me like it is only a noun. The root would have to change to be used any other way.

marriage - noun
marry - verb
matrimony - adjective
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Also married is somethign you "become"..We arent born "married"..(or at least hopefully most of us arent..LOL)..Thats why we are asked ..how long have you been married..its an action word..Why cant the word expand to mean two people..rather than one man and one woman?

Love

Dallas
 
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