USA's Laws Are Too Soft On Crime

[joe1776]

Studies I have seen in the past have shown that the best deterrent to crime is having more police on the beat, not longer sentences. Criminals don't intend to get caught, so that's less of a deterrent that knowing there's a greater chance of getting caught.

I don't advocate longer sentences. Sentences should be fair. Sentences mandated by law are wrong also.

The goal of all decision-making processes should be to make the right decision as consistently as humanly possible. There's no earthly reason that judging the guilt or innocence of a defendant in a criminal case should be an exception.

 

[QuestioningMind]

You really think that dumping the Blackstone bias would lead to 40,000 independent police departments collaborating to take over the country?

I doubt it, but I do think we need independent oversight of the police departments.

Rape, assault, murder, child molestation --- I'm more concerned with the harm done by violent criminals than I am with the harm done by law enforcement personnel who screw up.

I don't want criminals to skate free because someone in law enforcement screwed up. The screw up can be punished with suspensions and firing without allowing the criminal to skate free on a serious offense.

Clearly you are among those who is willing to give up their rights and liberties for a promise from the state to keep you safe. I am not. We fought a war to ensure our constitutional rights against abuses from the state and I'm not willing to just give them away because the state claims it will only violate my rights in order to keep me safe.

I find it telling that you only think it would be a problem if all 40,000 police departments starting violating people's constitutional rights. Personally I feel that if even one police department is violating the constitutional rights of citizens that it's unacceptable. And softening the consequences of police making such violations will only ensure that more Americans get their rights violated. That's completely unacceptable in my opinion. Again, I have FAR less fear of any individual criminal in society than I have fear of a state that places putting criminals in jail over the protection of our constitutional rights.

Interesting that you want us to be harder on criminals who commit crimes and throw them in prison, but when a police officer commits a crime you call it 'screwing up' and suggest they be suspended or fired, as if a cop committing a crime is less of a threat to society than an individual citizen committing a crime. I feel the exact opposite. We give cops the authority to arrest and even kill people, so I think they should be held to a higher standard, not a lower standard. At least you've gone from giving them a 'slap on the wrist' to suggesting they get suspended... but why shouldn't they do prison time? Like I said before, if it was mandatory than any cop who violated a person's constitutional rights got 20 years in prison, you hardly EVER see a cop 'screwing up' by 'forgetting to get a warrant' prior to searching a person's home.

I agree that murderers and rapists getting off because some cop refused to follow the law is extremely frustration and wrong. But let's direct our frustration where it belongs, at the bumbling cops who refuse to follow the law and end up giving these murderers and rapists a get out of jail free card. IF you think there's a significant number of criminals who are getting off because of Blackstone violations, that just goes to show how many cops there are out there who completely disregard our constitutional rights.

 

[joe1776]

Clearly you are among those who is willing to give up their rights and liberties for a promise from the state to keep you safe. I am not. We fought a war to ensure our constitutional rights against abuses from the state and I'm not willing to just give them away because the state claims it will only violate my rights in order to keep me safe.

I find it telling that you only think it would be a problem if all 40,000 police departments starting violating people's constitutional rights. Personally I feel that if even one police department is violating the constitutional rights of citizens that it's unacceptable. And softening the consequences of police making such violations will only ensure that more Americans get their rights violated. That's completely unacceptable in my opinion. Again, I have FAR less fear of any individual criminal in society than I have fear of a state that places putting criminals in jail over the protection of our constitutional rights.

Interesting that you want us to be harder on criminals who commit crimes and throw them in prison, but when a police officer commits a crime you call it 'screwing up' and suggest they be suspended or fired, as if a cop committing a crime is less of a threat to society than an individual citizen committing a crime. I feel the exact opposite. We give cops the authority to arrest and even kill people, so I think they should be held to a higher standard, not a lower standard. At least you've gone from giving them a 'slap on the wrist' to suggesting they get suspended... but why shouldn't they do prison time? Like I said before, if it was mandatory than any cop who violated a person's constitutional rights got 20 years in prison, you hardly EVER see a cop 'screwing up' by 'forgetting to get a warrant' prior to searching a person's home.

I agree that murderers and rapists getting off because some cop refused to follow the law is extremely frustration and wrong. But let's direct our frustration where it belongs, at the bumbling cops who refuse to follow the law and end up giving these murderers and rapists a get out of jail free card. IF you think there's a significant number of criminals who are getting off because of Blackstone violations, that just goes to show how many cops there are out there who completely disregard our constitutional rights.

You're right. I don't think that a cop who somehow bungles his duty to read the suspect his Miranda rights, and by so doing violates the suspect's constitutional rights, has committed a serious crime deserving of severe punishment. I think he should be reprimanded and the incident should be entered into a permanent record and that repeated offenses should lead to that cop's dismissal.

I think the idea that the cop's failure in not following the Blackstone-inspired Miranda law should prevent a jury from hearing the defendant's confession of murder, rape, assault or some other serious offense is dumb as hell because more innocent citizens will likely be murdered, raped or assaulted as a result.

As for your argument that if we let the cops get away with this it will lead to catastrophic abuse, that's an example of the logical fallacy referred to as the slippery slope argument..