USA Engages In Acts Of War. Will Be Outraged If Retaliation.

[Revoltingest]

I remember Iran-Contra and other interventionist acts. So Trump is following in Reagan's footsteps here.

To me this does not pass the smell test. Is our vital national interest at stake? Heck no. So we should just keep out of it.

Our national interest is indeed at stake.
Ending hostilities against countries is crucial.

 

[Left Coast]

Says Bolton.
One of the few things that Trump did right was to keep his promise of no more wars. (Though he couldn't touch the military-industrial complexes war machine. No reduction of troops and the CIA is still doing its thing of toppling unwanted left-leaning administrations in Latin America.)
And the worst thing is that Biden wouldn't even give lip service to more peace. The US will remain the worlds bully for quite some time.

It's not just Bolton.

Guess which country Donald Trump asked about invading

I agree with you that Biden's record on war/foreign policy isn't great. Though I think he would be less incendiary and open to diplomacy.

 

[Nakosis]

In the news, Trump seeks to take Iran's oil, preventing Venezuela from getting it.
WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Seeks to Seize Iranian Fuel Bound for Venezuela
Excerpted.....
U.S. federal prosecutors filed suit late Wednesday to seize four tankers-worth of gasoline Iran is sailing to Venezuela, the latest salvo in the administration’s effort to stifle flows of goods and money helping to keep two of its top foes in power.

By filing a civil-forfeiture complaint, U.S. prosecutors aim to not only prevent delivery of the Iranian fuel to Venezuela, which began the journey last month, but also deprive Tehran of the revenues from the cargo and deter future shipments.

The action is the latest in a series of moves the U.S. has taken against Iran and its ally Venezuela, as part of a broad operation to pressure the governments in Tehran and Caracas to meet U.S. demands.

Justified by our interests/goals, or somebody's interests/goals.

We have an interest in obstructing the growth of Iran. Them there's bad folks. Governments fighting governments, trying to limit each others power. I've personally no interest in causing the people of Iran problems. But our government needs to secure its own power yes?

 

[Revoltingest]

Justified by our interests/goals, or somebody's interests/goals.

We have an interest in obstructing the growth of Iran. Them there's bad folks. Governments fighting governments, trying to limit each others power. I've personally no interest in causing the people of Iran problems. But our government needs to secure its own power yes?

Iran is bad because of what we've done to them.
So the USA is worse.
We cannot be trusted to wield such power.
If we tried being peaceful instead of bellicose
& deadly, we wouldn't have so many enemies.

 

[Nakosis]

Iran is bad because of what we've done to them.
So the USA is worse.
We cannot be trusted to wield such power.
If we tried being peaceful instead of bellicose
& deadly, we wouldn't have so many enemies.

If we didn't have so many enemies then we wouldn't need so much government protecting us from them.
Methinks it might be in the government's best interest to keep lots of enemies out there.

 

[Stevicus]

If these ships are in international waters, I should have thought it would be an act of piracy to intercept them.

Sounds like it.

 

[Cooky]

Iran is bad because of what we've done to them.
So the USA is worse.
We cannot be trusted to wield such power.
If we tried being peaceful instead of bellicose
& deadly, we wouldn't have so many enemies.

I heard we're all who we are because of past experiences. This perspective should lead the conversation toward free-will, and if we as peoples or nations are liable for our actions at all, being previous experiences lead us all to be what we are.

 

[Cooky]

If we didn't have so many enemies then we wouldn't need so much government protecting us from them.
Methinks it might be in the government's best interest to keep lots of enemies out there.

Personally, I like the idea of bringing everyday Americans up, and encouraging outsiders into government as opposed to career politicians, groomed from childhood. It prevents there from being a Government / Us dichotomy.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

If we didn't have so many enemies then we wouldn't need so much government protecting us from them.
Methinks it might be in the government's best interest to keep lots of enemies out there.

Not just the government. A huge amount of the private sector sucks on the tit of the military industrial complex. The marriage of government and business makes it ten times harder to break the back of military adventurism, weapon funding etc.

 

[esmith]

Seems on one hand there are those that want us to punish Russia and with the same breath complain when we punish another country.
Ridiculous!!!!

 

[Revoltingest]

If we didn't have so many enemies then we wouldn't need so much government protecting us from them.
Methinks it might be in the government's best interest to keep lots of enemies out there.

If we didn't have so much adventurous government, we wouldn't have so many enemies.
We staged a coup to overthrow a democratically elected Iranian government.
We waged a proxy war using Iraq to attack Iran, killing somewhere south of a million Iranians.
We supplied them with much assistance, including bio & chemical weapons.
What have they done to us...anything even approaching one of those?
We created their enmity for us.
They deserve an apology & reparations....not continual attack.

 

[Revoltingest]

I heard we're all who we are because of past experiences. This perspective should lead the conversation toward free-will, and if we as peoples or nations are liable for our actions at all, being previous experiences lead us all to be what we are.

Aye, many of the wrongs befalling us are of our own making.
Consequences should be considered before acting.

 

[exchemist]

Iran is bad because of what we've done to them.
So the USA is worse.
We cannot be trusted to wield such power.
If we tried being peaceful instead of bellicose
& deadly, we wouldn't have so many enemies.

Yes I think there is a lot of truth in that. Iran has plenty of good reason from history to be suspicious of the US and the UK (Mossadeq affair). I always thought Obama's attempts to bring Iran in from the cold were rather far-sighted.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes I think there is a lot of truth in that. Iran has plenty of good reason from history to be suspicious of the US and the UK (Mossadeq affair). I always thought Obama's attempts to bring Iran in from the cold were rather far-sighted.

Aye, twas Obama's greatest positive action IMO.
Is it any wonder that Iran wants nuclear weapons, given our repeated
attacks upon them, including our lap dogs, Iraq, England, Israel, etc?
History has shown that having nukes inoculates a country against attack.

 

[exchemist]

Aye, twas Obama's greatest positive action IMO.
Is it any wonder that Iran wants nuclear weapons, given our repeated
attacks upon them, including our lap dogs, Iraq, England, Israel, etc?
History has shown that having nukes inoculates a country against attack.

My sentiments entirely. Iran is a far more civilised country than Saudi Arabia, say, with a sizeable educated middle class. I think there is every prospect of their government evolving towards a more stable and reasonable one, given suitable encouragement. Oh well, a project for another day......

 

[columbus]

Seems on one hand there are those that want us to punish Russia and with the same breath complain when we punish another country.
Ridiculous!!!!

Russia is a threat. The main thing standing between Russia/Putin returning to their former status as superpower is the USA. I believe that's the reason Putin wanted Trump.

But Iran and Venezuela aren't threats and never have been. There's no rational reason to attack them. But we do.

And as a result, Iran wants a nuclear defense. Obama managed to make a peace deal with them to avert that. Trump and the Republicans demonstrated that the USA cannot be trusted to honor a peace deal. So, now, Iran(and anybody else that the USA government dislikes) must get nukes to defend themselves from us.
Tom

 

[Cooky]

Russia is a threat. The main thing standing between Russia/Putin returning to their former status as superpower is the USA. I believe that's the reason Putin wanted Trump.

How is Russia a threat to the US?

What could they possibly do to us that a nuclear Iran can't?

 

[Cooky]

Really, the only difference I see between the two (Russia & Iran), is that Iran is also a theocracy, where Russia isn't.

Which makes Russia just a tad bit better.

 

[exchemist]

How is Russia a threat to the US?

What could they possibly do to us that a nuclear Iran can't?

I presume by "us" you mean the USA. Well, they have had a go at subverting your elections, and they may have kompromat on your weird liability of a president. I'm not sure what else they can do to the USA.

If you are in Europe, like me, Russia is a threat in more physical ways. They have taken a large chunk out of Ukraine by force and they regularly threaten the Baltic States.

Iran supports rebel fighters in Yemen and various terrorist groups in Lebanon etc. So maybe if you are in the Middle East Iran feels like more of a threat than Russia. But then, all sorts of people are threats to others in the Middle East, including Israel.

 

[Mitty]

In the news, Trump seeks to take Iran's oil, preventing Venezuela from getting it.
WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Seeks to Seize Iranian Fuel Bound for Venezuela
Excerpted.....
U.S. federal prosecutors filed suit late Wednesday to seize four tankers-worth of gasoline Iran is sailing to Venezuela, the latest salvo in the administration’s effort to stifle flows of goods and money helping to keep two of its top foes in power.

By filing a civil-forfeiture complaint, U.S. prosecutors aim to not only prevent delivery of the Iranian fuel to Venezuela, which began the journey last month, but also deprive Tehran of the revenues from the cargo and deter future shipments.

The action is the latest in a series of moves the U.S. has taken against Iran and its ally Venezuela, as part of a broad operation to pressure the governments in Tehran and Caracas to meet U.S. demands.

Should Trump be tried in an international court and executed for piracy?