US v N Korea Brinksmanship

[Revoltingest]

Military action against North Korea is 'on the table,' Tillerson says
This style of negotiating carries great risk.
Let's consider 2 possibilities.....
1) Trump is rattling his saber towards N Korea, with the real intent to attack if they don't capitulate.
2) Trump is rattling it without the intent to do so, but this forces China to get involved in quelling N Korean threats.
#1 is the height of idiocy.
#2 might be clever.....but I don't like it.

Unlike some threads, this one allows bashing of Trump, Hillary, Obama, Bush, & anyone else you dislike.

 

[bobhikes]

I don't agree with Trump because I don't think he will handle it right but I would like something done about North Korea. At some point North Korea is going to do something that will hurt a lot of innocents abroad and currently they are hurting a lot of innocents domestically.

 

[Wu Wei]

Currently the biggest problem with N Korea is China (Allied to N Korea, but also not happy with N. Korea) and China has stated it does not want to get in the middle of this. But after the last N Korea missile launch China increased its military presence at the border between China and North Korea. Now why did they do that, was it because they were concerned about N Korea as a threat or was it because they are gearing up for US military intervention. China also is very much concerned about its economy and moving from the 2nd biggest economy on the planet to the biggest and war is not good for that so where does that leave us? I honestly have no idea, but I am also not sure if Tillerson's statement was a good or bad thing to make at this time. All a bit unnerving

 

[Onyx]

I think the likely outcome is that DPRK will be forced into cooperation concerning the nukes.

Another possibility is that a regime change is in the works, and there will be another "shock and awe" campaign when the timing is right. But who knows.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think the likely outcome is that DPRK will be forced into cooperation concerning the nukes.

Another possibility is that a regime change is in the works, and there will be another "shock and awe" campaign when the timing is right. But who knows.

The shock & awe stuff is what I really want to avoid.
We could spend another trillion dollars in that quagmire.
(No offense intended, @Quagmire )

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Military action against North Korea is 'on the table,' Tillerson says
This style of negotiating carries great risk.
Let's consider 2 possibilities.....
1) Trump is rattling his saber towards N Korea, with the real intent to attack if they don't capitulate.
2) Trump is rattling it without the intent to do so, but this forces China to get involved in quelling N Korean threats.
#1 is the height of idiocy.
#2 might be clever.....but I don't like it.

Unlike some threads, this one allows bashing of Trump, Hillary, Obama, Bush, & anyone else you dislike.

So, according to nbcnews.com,
"Let me be very clear: the policy of strategic patience has ended. We are exploring a new range of diplomatic, security, economic measures. All options are on the table," Tillerson told reporters Friday during a stop in Seoul, South Korea, a day after declaring 20 years of North Korean diplomacy has failed.
First note that the above is anything but "very clear." That said, it's not at all clear to me that the statement reflects a greater willingness to engage in some preemptive strike and, save for preemptive strike, military action has always been on the table.

If forced to choose between your two options, I'll take the second.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The shock & awe stuff is what I really want to avoid.
We could spend another trillion dollars in that quagmire.

And that cost pales when compared to the loss of life and the regional chaos that would ensue.

 

[Stevicus]

Military action against North Korea is 'on the table,' Tillerson says
This style of negotiating carries great risk.
Let's consider 2 possibilities.....
1) Trump is rattling his saber towards N Korea, with the real intent to attack if they don't capitulate.
2) Trump is rattling it without the intent to do so, but this forces China to get involved in quelling N Korean threats.
#1 is the height of idiocy.
#2 might be clever.....but I don't like it.

Unlike some threads, this one allows bashing of Trump, Hillary, Obama, Bush, & anyone else you dislike.

There might be a method to his madness. After all, the Nixon and Reagan years demonstrated that the world is a bit more cooperative if it believes the US is being led by a madman. It could be a geopolitical version of "good cop/bad cop," where Trump is the "bad cop," while an appointed diplomat can be the "good cop" and quietly offer a deal.

In retrospect, it does seem that we made a terrible blunder in making a deal with the Soviets to divide up Korea. They could have just pulled out and left it neutral, like they did with Austria. But it's all spilled milk now. East and West Germany came back together, not without difficulties, but they seem to be doing okay now. But for whatever reason, Korea couldn't do that.

The Russians also have a role to play here, since they've been involved in that region for much longer than we have, and they're also partly responsible (as are we) for the division of Korea that brought us to this sorry state of affairs regarding North Korea.

I'm not really sure how much of a threat North Korea truly is at this point. At this point, they're just an annoyance, and that's probably how China sees them. They may be prepared to deal with them if North Korea does something truly aggressive to destabilize the region. They and the Russians have more to lose if North Korea suddenly goes berserk. But until they actually do something, there may not be any reason for us to do anything. That may be why China isn't doing anything either, because there isn't any reason to at this point.

 

[Quetzal]

Military action against North Korea is 'on the table,' Tillerson says
This style of negotiating carries great risk.
Let's consider 2 possibilities.....
1) Trump is rattling his saber towards N Korea, with the real intent to attack if they don't capitulate.
2) Trump is rattling it without the intent to do so, but this forces China to get involved in quelling N Korean threats.
#1 is the height of idiocy.
#2 might be clever.....but I don't like it.

Unlike some threads, this one allows bashing of Trump, Hillary, Obama, Bush, & anyone else you dislike.

I agree, this is a risky problem and I also dislike the choices made.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree, this is a risky problem and I also dislike the choices made.

Here's to hoping that there are behind the scenes coordination
with China so that we find peace instead of war.
I make no predictions.

 

[Quetzal]

Here's to hoping that there are behind the scenes coordination
with China so that we find peace instead of war.
I make no predictions.

We can only hope.

 

[BSM1]

Here's to hoping that there are behind the scenes coordination
with China so that we find peace instead of war.
I make no predictions.

No matter what public posture the Chinese take, I believe they have a vested interest in maintaining peace and stability in NK as well as the entire region. However, I also believe that a strong stance on our part will inspire China to be more proactive in dealing with "the spoiled child in the grocery store" mentality of Kimbo.

 

[Revoltingest]

No matter what public posture the Chinese take, I believe they have a vested interest in maintaining peace and stability in NK as well as the entire region. However, I also believe that a strong stance on our part will inspire China to be more proactive in dealing with "the spoiled child in the grocery store" mentality of Kimbo.

That's my favored scenario too.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Military action against N. Korea by USA? Not recommended. It should never happen, and the reason is that the country is our ace in the conversation with China. We can always point to it and do not even need to say anything. It is China's #1 diplomatic mistake. Nobody is going to trust China in this scenario where the plight of N. Koreans gets ignored while China ignores it. Life in N. Korea sucks, and the reason is China props up its fascists. China's best course is to cooperate with S. Korea to relieve the terrible oppression in N. Korea. Then China can win. Otherwise nobody trusts China. We (USA) cannot fix the problems within N. Korea. If we attack things only get worse, and we lose one ideological advantage in the discussion about the S. China Sea. (Not an informed opinion. That is just how it looks to me with my limited information.)

 

[sun rise]

President Obama said "All options are on the table" with Iran a few years ago. I take it as typical sabre rattling. So it depends if you trust the current regime to not do something stupid which I don't.

Part of his statement is something I would expect us to say no matter who was in power in DC and it's one I agree with. Some of the rest of his statements are vague and the following comments are interesting.

"If they elevate the threat of their weapons program to a level that we believe requires action then that option is on the table," he told a press conference in South Korea.

"Certainly we do not want for things to get to a military conflict," he added. "But obviously if North Korea takes actions that threaten the South Korean forces or our own forces then that would be met with an appropriate response."

 

[dust1n]

People really do have short memories. Anyone remember what happened last time American intervened in Korea? Anyone? Oh yeah, a stalemate happened between Japan and Western forces, and North Korea and China.

Given that China is a nuclear power and is never itself going to be taken over by American forces, meaning it will likely back North Korea again, what exactly does Korean War II look like?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Some people never learn
I suspect trump is one of them, as are most of his team.

 

[columbus]

Some people never learn
I suspect trump is one of them, as are most of his team.

Worse. Trump has gotten what he wants by lying and threatening and blustering. He has learned to do that without ever really having any consequences, personally. He always had a team of lawyers and managers to protect his own interests.

Well, Trump doesn't live in Trump Towers any more. The real life consequences of his well established patterns of behavior will wreck lives and cost staggering amounts of money.

That's why I didn't vote for him.
Tom

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hopefully it's sabre rattling, but Trump does not live in this world so it's hard telling.
The strong economic dependencies between America and China may be the only thing that keeps any of us safe while we have a deranged lunatic in the White House.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

We should send in the microwaves and get more intel before acting.