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US Still Unprepared For Terrorists!

pdoel

Active Member
CaptainXeroid said:
One important thing to remember is that on 9/11/2001, there had not been a US plane hijacked in eleven years. These hijackers exploited specific weaknesses that we believe have since been addressed.
I for one, don't believe the weaknesses that allowed the hijackings of 9/11 have been addressed. I think we still have many weaknesses in that area. Sure, we've made some changes, but not enough to really keep this from happening again. Too many stories of crazy stuff still happening that shouldn't.

I for one, supported the attack on Afghanistan. Not to "get revenge" but to help put a stop to terrorism. I did not, and never will, support the war on Iraq. I think this was more to boost Bush's ego, and I think he really thought it would increase his popularity (which it did for a short time). I think we're spending too much time and money in an area we had no business being in. And as a result, we haven't spent the time or money in actually protecting the US. I don't buy the whole "kill them before they kill us" philosophy. I say put the money into our infrastructure. Make our company safe.
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
bartdanr said:
Hi Greatcalgarian, thanks for the post.

The trouble with most conspiracy theories is that they depend on too many people staying silent for too long. Government officials are notorious blabbermouths, in order to make themselves look good to the media...because they're little egos were hurt...or because they have pangs of conscience, or whatever.

I find this theory, like nearly all other conspiracy theories, as unbelievable and not backed up by a shred of evidence. That won't stop "true believers" from believing in it, just like those who believe that until someone proves to them that there isn't an invisible purple dragon living on the far side of the moon, they'll still believe it.

Peace
According to some posting in the Wilkepedia, this is one of the more commonly accepted theory:D

<H2>Government foreknowledge
One of the more commonly accepted theories about September 11th is the notion the United States Government alledgedly knew of the impending attacks and failed to act on that knowledge. In the aftermath of the disaster, the intelligence world was looked upon to explain what went wrong within their own community. The following reports are drawn upon to support these claims:
</H2>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Conspiracy#Government_foreknowledge
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
Darkdale said:
:biglaugh: awww c'mon. It's not that frightening. It's a little funny to think that the next time terrorists decide to kill americans the nutjobs will actually blame our government... but I don't think people are going to buy that nonsense.
Half (49.3%) of New York City residents and 41% of New York citizens overall believe the US Government "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act," according a the poll conducted by Zogby International from Tuesday August 24 through Thursday August 26, 2004.

Motives

Theories as to why members of the U.S. government would have allowed the attacks to occur, perpetrated the attacks, and/or obstructed investigation generally involve one or more of the following motives:

  • To justify increased defense spending and provide financial payback to many companies that supported the Republicans in the 2000 election (e.g. Halliburton).
  • To gain the support of US citizens to invade the Middle East in order to control petroleum reserves in response to a peaking of global oil production. (See peak oil)
  • To justify the passing of certain legislation, including the USA PATRIOT Act, argued to be restrictive of certain civil rights.
  • To create an opportunity for the neoconservative wing of the Republican Party to seize and maintain power through increased popularity, perpetual war, and the stifling of dissenting opinions. See the PNAC reference above.
  • To ready the public to fight a global existential conflict between Islamic Fundamentalism and Western Civilization that neoconservatives believed was already underway but that most people were unaware of. See PNAC New Pearl Harbor reference above,Clash of Civilizations
  • To conceal a deeper Saudi complicity extending into the Saudi royal family and other components of the Saudi government.
  • To cover-up the failures of US intelligence agencies.
  • To distract from more important domestic issues facing America (poverty, crashing stock markets; corporate corruption (ENRON etc),lack of health care, political division).
  • Rep. Ron Paul has written "The 9-11 Commission report is several hundred pages worth of recommendations to make government larger and more intrusive."
From Wilkepedia:D
 

bartdanr

Member
greatcalgarian said:
From Wilkepedia:D

Hi Greatcalgarian, thanks for the post.

First, Wikipedia has its own problems...anyone can post there, and there have been some embarissing, untrue things posted there. (See http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/12/05/wikipedia.rules.ap/index.html ).

Second, I would find it astonishing that an administration that was able to involve so many people in a consipracy, none of whom have yet leaked, in less than eight months of being in office, could not pull off something that they had far longer to plan--namely, overcoming the lack of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Surly such clever people could do a better job of propaganda than they're doing now!

Third, similar accusations have been made of FDR and the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941...FDR wanted us in WW II, and so he let the Japanese attack to get us involved.

The theory is unmitigated bull****. The poll results can be found here --best to get it from the primary source than Wikipedia. I must say I'm disappointed in the intellecual capabilities of half of New Yorkers. And if they really believed that George W. and his cohorts sat by while of 3,000 Americans were murdered, then why the hell aren't they screaming for impeachment and prosecution of the administration??? Surely this is far more serious a charge than the charge of cherry-picking intelligence to support the war in Iraq--it's orders of magnitude greater.

Peace
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
US is, and always will be unprepared for an attack by someone who does not care to get away with it, so to speak. If I choose to murder someone, and have intentions of getting away with it, I have to do a lot of planning, cover my tracks very well, and ensure that nobody knows what I am going to do, or after the event, what I did.

On the other hand, if my goal is simply to kill another human with no thought of the consequences to me personally, then I can simply mow down the next pedestrian that gets in front of my car, I could buy a gallon of gas and a lighter and go to the mall, shoot a stranger at a bus stop, etc etc etc. Problem is, with the Islamofascists, we are very much dealing with a whole group of people with no interest in "getting away with it".

Many of them are intentionally killing themselves just to murder random U.S. citizens. That is very difficult to stop. Always will be. Nobody anywhere is doing enough to protect their citizens from terrorism. Israel comes pretty darned close. U.S. is not where it needs to be, tho we are certainly in better shape than we were prior to 9/11. Lots harder to hijack a plane now than it was then. Our nuclear power facilities are much better guarded, lots more arab speakers involved in the DOD, FBI, CIA. The Gorrellik wall that was in place during the Clinton administration is gone (Gorellic (sp?) kept federal agencies from communicating important matters to one another).

Our borders are in deplorable shape, and need very badly to be closed up. An arab man who learns to speak spanish can very easily come into Texas or California in the same way that many other spanish speakers come in, tho he may be coming here to blow up the Chrysler building, rather than working in the factory that produces Chryslers. Much more needs to be done to protect our borders, but it is an expensive and time consuming process.

So, are we safe? Nope. But we are safer, and that is a start. Much more needs to be done, and everyone needs to be involved. If you think for even one second that the bin-Laden's of the world would hesitate to cut your head off while you still live, you are sadly mistaken, and in dangerous denial. All of us "infidels" need to stick together and look out for one another. There be monsters afoot.

B.
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
bartdanr said:
Hi Greatcalgarian, thanks for the post.

First, Wikipedia has its own problems...anyone can post there, and there have been some embarissing, untrue things posted there. (See http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/12/05/wikipedia.rules.ap/index.html ).

Second, I would find it astonishing that an administration that was able to involve so many people in a consipracy, none of whom have yet leaked, in less than eight months of being in office, could not pull off something that they had far longer to plan--namely, overcoming the lack of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Surly such clever people could do a better job of propaganda than they're doing now!

Third, similar accusations have been made of FDR and the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941...FDR wanted us in WW II, and so he let the Japanese attack to get us involved.

The theory is unmitigated bull****. The poll results can be found here --best to get it from the primary source than Wikipedia. I must say I'm disappointed in the intellecual capabilities of half of New Yorkers. And if they really believed that George W. and his cohorts sat by while of 3,000 Americans were murdered, then why the hell aren't they screaming for impeachment and prosecution of the administration??? Surely this is far more serious a charge than the charge of cherry-picking intelligence to support the war in Iraq--it's orders of magnitude greater.

Peace
The conspiracy theories are attractive, it is because there are too many grey area that the government was and still is, or refuses to, explain the truth to the public. It is very difficult to understand how 19 Arabs, in isolated cell, and organized by OBL (through internet correspondence) to be able to pull off 9/11 without some collaborators from within the Government. Whether those within the government is the GWB and company or a group of US traitors, or other sinister selfish capitalists looking for personal benefit, or some neo-conservatists die hard is subjected to debate.
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
US is, and always will be unprepared for an attack by someone who does not care to get away with it, so to speak. If I choose to murder someone, and have intentions of getting away with it, I have to do a lot of planning, cover my tracks very well, and ensure that nobody knows what I am going to do, or after the event, what I did.

On the other hand, if my goal is simply to kill another human with no thought of the consequences to me personally, then I can simply mow down the next pedestrian that gets in front of my car, I could buy a gallon of gas and a lighter and go to the mall, shoot a stranger at a bus stop, etc etc etc. Problem is, with the Islamofascists, we are very much dealing with a whole group of people with no interest in "getting away with it".

Many of them are intentionally killing themselves just to murder random U.S. citizens. That is very difficult to stop. Always will be. Nobody anywhere is doing enough to protect their citizens from terrorism. Israel comes pretty darned close. U.S. is not where it needs to be, tho we are certainly in better shape than we were prior to 9/11. Lots harder to hijack a plane now than it was then. Our nuclear power facilities are much better guarded, lots more arab speakers involved in the DOD, FBI, CIA. The Gorrellik wall that was in place during the Clinton administration is gone (Gorellic (sp?) kept federal agencies from communicating important matters to one another).

Our borders are in deplorable shape, and need very badly to be closed up. An arab man who learns to speak spanish can very easily come into Texas or California in the same way that many other spanish speakers come in, tho he may be coming here to blow up the Chrysler building, rather than working in the factory that produces Chryslers. Much more needs to be done to protect our borders, but it is an expensive and time consuming process.

So, are we safe? Nope. But we are safer, and that is a start. Much more needs to be done, and everyone needs to be involved. If you think for even one second that the bin-Laden's of the world would hesitate to cut your head off while you still live, you are sadly mistaken, and in dangerous denial. All of us "infidels" need to stick together and look out for one another. There be monsters afoot.

B.
Good post. But anyone who have no intention of getting away, is not possible to stop him from committing the act, just like the suicide bomber. So what is more important is to stop this person from reaching the state of no intention of getting way. The reason this person will do that can be two reasons. One, he is brained washed into believing that what he is going to do is right, and he will be in heaven. Second is he has no more purpose in life, due to some drastic drama that happened to his love ones. So to tackle these two root cause is the best way to make America a safe place to live, instead of shadow boxing with the al-Qaeda, Muslim Extremist, Terrorist and so on.
 

bartdanr

Member
greatcalgarian said:
The conspiracy theories are attractive, it is because there are too many grey area that the government was and still is, or refuses to, explain the truth to the public. It is very difficult to understand how 19 Arabs, in isolated cell, and organized by OBL (through internet correspondence) to be able to pull off 9/11 without some collaborators from within the Government. Whether those within the government is the GWB and company or a group of US traitors, or other sinister selfish capitalists looking for personal benefit, or some neo-conservatists die hard is subjected to debate.

HI Greatcalgarian, thanks for the post.

I, for one, do not find it "very difficult" to understand how 19 Arabs accomplished 9/11. But I understand your point, that to many people, conspiracy theories will always be attractive. Yes, the government bungles around with the truth--but in my mind, the incompetency of the government in its lie-telling argues against conspiracy theories--i.e., they just aren't competent enough to pull such a thing off--and to keep it covered up for any length of time.

But no matter what facts or evidence come out, there will be a certain segment (even a large segment) of the population that believes in government conspiracy in 9/11, FDR knowing about the Pearl Harbor attack
and doing nothing about it, that the government covered up an ET at Roswell, and that the moon landings were faked. A book I read years ago was a good analysis of this phenomena, "Sleeping with Extraterrestrials: Why People Believe in Strange Things".

Sometimes, a horrible but neat lie is easier to believe than a messy truth.

Peace
 
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