US railroad workers poised to possibly go on strike this Friday

[Shaul]

More nonsense. The effect of the Keystone Pipeline on US gas prices is "minimal" according to an expert in the field At least 2/3 of it are exported. It is heavy crude that requires extra processing and is not highly desirable in the US.


PolitiFact - Will all the oil from the Keystone XL pipeline be exported?

The U.S. State Department did not respond to most of Gillibrand’s claim but did comment on how the pipeline could affect gas prices.

"As the final Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement makes clear, gas prices throughout the United States are primarily driven by global market factors," a spokesperson said. "The amount of Western Canada Sedimentary Basin (WCSB) crude that makes its way to the Gulf region does not change this dynamic. Any impact on prices for refined petroleum products resulting from the approval and construction of the Keystone XL pipeline would be minimal."

Some would stay in the US, but it is only one minor supplier. And it would still be imported oil. We would be importing from Canada instead of other countries. Do you think that they are gong to give us a special break? You are just using a shell game where you are changing suppliers.

It’s like you didn’t even read what I wrote. Because the Keystone pipeline was stopped more of the oil is shipped by rail. If a rail strike were to happen that means oil supplies were be disrupted. All oil transported by rail in the U.S. would be impacted whether bound for U.S. consumption or foreign markets.

Railroad strike, and the economic damage it would cause, looms closer - CNN
“
A strike would be a crippling blow to the US economy, which is still struggling with supply chain problems. Roughly 30% of the nation's freight moves by rail. Among the problems could be:

• Gasoline: Without freight railroads, oil refineries would have trouble producing their current volumes of gasoline, which could send gas prices higher, ending a string of three months of falling prices at the pump.”

 

[pearl]

After 20 straight hours in the latest round of talks -- which included President Joe Biden and other administration officials -- the companies and union negotiators reached a preliminary agreement balancing the needs of workers, businesses and the economy, the Labor Department said.
Rail Strike Averted With Hours to Go as US Helps in Labor Deal (msn.com)

 

[sun rise]

A strike would be a crippling blow to the US economy, which is still struggling with supply chain problems

Fortunately President Biden has managed to avert that strike. Care to give him some kudos for doing that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It’s like you didn’t even read what I wrote. Because the Keystone pipeline was stopped more of the oil is shipped by rail. If a rail strike were to happen that means oil supplies were be disrupted. All oil transported by rail in the U.S. would be impacted whether bound for U.S. consumption or foreign markets.

Railroad strike, and the economic damage it would cause, looms closer - CNN
“
A strike would be a crippling blow to the US economy, which is still struggling with supply chain problems. Roughly 30% of the nation's freight moves by rail. Among the problems could be:

• Gasoline: Without freight railroads, oil refineries would have trouble producing their current volumes of gasoline, which could send gas prices higher, ending a string of three months of falling prices at the pump.”

That article does not support your claim. Yes, prices of oil related products could increase due to it becoming more difficult to get oil to refineries. But you specifically brought up the Keystone Pipeline. That is only one source of Canadian oil and as I showed earlier at least 2/3 of it was going to be exported. It is not highly desirable oil. It is very heavy crude that requires more refining. The gulf refiners are one of the few places that can refine it. And from what I have seen the exported oil is not refined to the extent that US oil is. We have higher pollution standards that is why a lot of it, the majority of it, is exported after minimal refinement.

And the Keystone Pipeline is far from the only pipeline from Canada, and it was never running. It was getting close to completion when shut down. At the very most it was going to supply roughly 800,000 barrels of oil per day (that was its rated full capacity, I don't think that pipelines continually run at full capacity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline0) US consumption is right now just over 20 million barrels of oil a day. So we are talking maybe 4% of US consumption at the most. But then I already linked an article that explains that about 2/3 of that are exported so now you are talking about the low 1% to 2% that the US consumes a day. And that is assuming that we can't get that oil. There are still plenty of Canadian oil pipelines:

CER - Canada’s Pipeline System 2021 - Crude Oil Pipeline Transportation System

We are almost surely still getting that oil. It is just not going down a controversial pipeline. it looks as if it were running, and even assuming that it was the only source of that oil (i seriously doubt if it is) you are talking only about 1 to 2% max of US daily consumption. Getting oil from elsewhere that is priced the same would not make a lick of difference in oil prices.

You took too shallow of a look into a more complicated problem again.

 

[Secret Chief]

On August 5, following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, the Reagan administration fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order, and banned them from federal service for life.

Wikipedia.​

Leadership works. Woke wonks don't.



John

How christian of you.

 

[Secret Chief]

In the U.K. , railway workers, postal workers, dockers at Felixstowe container port, criminal lawyers, council rubbish collectors and bus drivers have all been on strike recently.

Working people were forced to pay for the 2008 banking crash through 14 years of stagnant wages, and now we’re expected to pay for Covid, Brexit and a war in Ukraine, while the government cuts tax for the rich, and removes the cap on bankers bonuses.

Yes, but but it hurts business. **** the working class. And the best is, the sleeping working class attack the working class. Only unionised workers can stand up and protect themselves.

 

[John D. Brey]

How christian of you.

Leadership works. Woke wonks could, in some senses, be considered leaderless animals.



John

 

[Secret Chief]

Leadership works. Woke wonks could, in some senses, be considered leaderless animals.



John

The working class should just buckle down and accept whatever might be given then? No rights? No living wage? What does your god say? All that theological bollocks but in the real world it's just **** the working class.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Yes, but but it hurts business. **** the working class. And the best is, the sleeping working class attack the working class. Only unionised workers can stand up and protect themselves.

Yeah, greedy trade unions are causing inflation by daring to ask for wages to keep pace with, er, inflation…

 

[Shaul]

That article does not support your claim. Yes, prices of oil related products could increase due to it becoming more difficult to get oil to refineries. But you specifically brought up the Keystone Pipeline. That is only one source of Canadian oil and as I showed earlier at least 2/3 of it was going to be exported. It is not highly desirable oil. It is very heavy crude that requires more refining. The gulf refiners are one of the few places that can refine it. And from what I have seen the exported oil is not refined to the extent that US oil is. We have higher pollution standards that is why a lot of it, the majority of it, is exported after minimal refinement.

And the Keystone Pipeline is far from the only pipeline from Canada, and it was never running. It was getting close to completion when shut down. At the very most it was going to supply roughly 800,000 barrels of oil per day (that was its rated full capacity, I don't think that pipelines continually run at full capacity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline0) US consumption is right now just over 20 million barrels of oil a day. So we are talking maybe 4% of US consumption at the most. But then I already linked an article that explains that about 2/3 of that are exported so now you are talking about the low 1% to 2% that the US consumes a day. And that is assuming that we can't get that oil. There are still plenty of Canadian oil pipelines:

CER - Canada’s Pipeline System 2021 - Crude Oil Pipeline Transportation System

We are almost surely still getting that oil. It is just not going down a controversial pipeline. it looks as if it were running, and even assuming that it was the only source of that oil (i seriously doubt if it is) you are talking only about 1 to 2% max of US daily consumption. Getting oil from elsewhere that is priced the same would not make a lick of difference in oil prices.

You took too shallow of a look into a more complicated problem again.

None of this changes two facts. Any use of pipelines would reduce the amount transported by rail. If pipelines are not an option there is greater exposure to oil and gas disruptions due to a rail strike. You want to (re)argue the specific case for Keystone pipeline. I am arguing the general case that all pipelines, including the Keystone, reduce dependency on rail transport. Which is correct.

 

[Shaul]

Fortunately President Biden has managed to avert that strike. Care to give him some kudos for doing that?

I am happy to do so, sort of.

It is a fine thing that this strike was avoided. For that President Biden deserves the recognition.

Yes, there is a “but”. The price that will be paid for this deal also needs to be acknowledged. To secure this deal the union was given most everything it wanted. The pay increases, though those will slightly add to inflation, are not a big deal, IMHO. Of greater concern is the power it gives the union to control worker schedules. This will create possible supply chain disruptions and gives the union the power to hold the nation’s transportation system hostage at will. That is dangerous. Still another issue is the signal this contract sends. President Biden has been beholden to unions. But this deal signals to unions that he will fold like a cheap suit to them even if it costs everybody else. Basically President Biden has thrown the public under the bus to placate the union knowing that the consequences will come after the elections. He simply doesn’t care that the nation will bear these costs. And President Biden needs to be recognized for these coming consequences of his deal and not just the momentary benefit of the strike avoided.

 

[Shaul]

Yeah, greedy trade unions are causing inflation by daring to ask for wages to keep pace with, er, inflation…

Wages were not the issue. Management had agreed to the union asked for wage increases long ago during negotiations. Which nullifies your point. The last issue was whether the union could control worker schedules. This was given to them. Which means the union can now effectively hold all freight rail hostage at will.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Wages were not the issue. Management had agreed to the union asked for wage increases long ago during negotiations. Which nullifies your point. The last issue was whether the union could control worker schedules. This was given to them. Which means the union can now effectively hold all freight rail hostage at will.

I was talking about striking workers in the U.K., as you would have realised if you’d read the thread. But presumably you saw the word “unions” and reacted like one of Pavlov’s dogs.

Still though, some principles are universal; without trade unions to represent them in the workplace, most workers can expect to be treated as a mere resource by unscrupulous employers, and rinsed accordingly. And this applies, presumably, on both sides of the pond.

 

[Subduction Zone]

None of this changes two facts. Any use of pipelines would reduce the amount transported by rail. If pipelines are not an option there is greater exposure to oil and gas disruptions due to a rail strike. You want to (re)argue the specific case for Keystone pipeline. I am arguing the general case that all pipelines, including the Keystone, reduce dependency on rail transport. Which is correct.

It changes your claim. It demonstrates that not completing the Keystone Pipeline would not have affected gas prices noticeably. The Keystone gas pipeline was always about profit. That appears to be it.

 

[Shaul]

It changes your claim. It demonstrates that not completing the Keystone Pipeline would not have affected gas prices noticeably. The Keystone gas pipeline was always about profit. That appears to be it.

No, it didn’t. Regardless if the Keystone pipeline stoppage alone would not affect gasoline prices(which I don’t concede but will for the sake of argument), the combination of not having the Keystone pipeline and a railroad strike would affect gasoline prices.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, it didn’t. Regardless if the Keystone pipeline stoppage alone would not affect gasoline prices(which I don’t concede but will for the sake of argument), the combination of not having the Keystone pipeline and a railroad strike would affect gasoline prices.

LOL! That is only because a railroad strike would affect the price of gas. Keystone or no Keystone. Talk about a pointless point.