1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

US History. Fact or overblown myth?

Discussion in 'Historical Debates' started by SomeRandom, Jul 12, 2020.

  1. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    78,007
    Ratings:
    +32,306
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    Whoever the party conventions decide to send. The citizens have zero say over who the official delegate is.
     
  2. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014
    Messages:
    10,539
    Ratings:
    +8,585
    That sounds worrisome, if I’m honest.
     
  3. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    78,007
    Ratings:
    +32,306
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    It is. It's how Trump was elected. Voted in by people that very few know who they are or how they got to that position. And it is all rubbish. But, the most problematic part of it, if a candidate wins a state by 1 vote, the million votes, or how many ever, for the other candidate count for nothing. It ensures those in non competitive states who dont vote as the state normally does are basically unheard and casting votes that are never considered.
     
  4. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    21,103
    Ratings:
    +13,956
    Religion:
    atheist
    For quick comparison, I'd say we (Australia) do less of the 'Pride in Country' part, but about as much sweeping under the carpet actual history in favour of narrative.

    Take that as a rough, rough, rough subjective assessment.
     
  5. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    21,103
    Ratings:
    +13,956
    Religion:
    atheist
    What's your opinion on Manifest Destiny?
     
  6. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    4,258
    Ratings:
    +1,877
    Religion:
    Judaism
    This right there tells my two things. One, when you claim to know something it can be something that you certainly cannot know and is also false. The other is that you aren’t even interested in genuine civil discourse.
     
  7. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    4,258
    Ratings:
    +1,877
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Manifest destiny, per se, is simply a recognition that America would likely eventually stretch from ocean to ocean. However the concept was often twisted. It was never accepted by all Americans and arguably never by the majority. It was also the tool of segments of American society for nefarious ends. I would also note that it primarily a vehicle of Democrats, such as Senator Douglas and President Polk among many, and opposed by Republicans such as President Lincoln and President Grant.

    Similarly the trails of tears was the product of Democrat actions. In particular Presidents Jackson and Van Buren(both Democrats) and opposed by the Whigs (the predecessor of the Republicans).
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    34,976
    Ratings:
    +20,387
    Ah, I love it when conservatives try to pretend that the parties 200 years ago are mirror images of their contemporary counterparts. That would explain all of the democrats who fly the confederate flag and try to preserve confederate statues. :rolleyes:

    Nice try, though. Besides, we're talking about the U.S. history a whole, so what difference does partisanship make in that regard?
     
    #48 Father Heathen, Jul 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  9. Hildeburh

    Hildeburh Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Messages:
    220
    Ratings:
    +130
    Religion:
    Frynsidu
    It's foundation myth from the perspective of white colonisers. If you don't mind a neopagan comparison it's much like BTW their foundation myth which was debunked but it did not lead to the cessation of the cult but strengthened it because they faced the intellectual challenge. America is a new democracy facing a reckoning with their past it could go either way, a pity if they waste the opportunity to objectively look at the past.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    37,441
    Ratings:
    +15,961
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    Our history is true but its been clearly embellished and doesn't address the whole story.
     
  11. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    37,441
    Ratings:
    +15,961
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    I love it when liberals try to deny their own background and pin it on others as if things about them are not true.

    That would explain all the marxist symbolism and Socialist and Communist memberships that liberals sign up for now days.
     
  12. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    34,976
    Ratings:
    +20,387
    So you're saying those who fly the confederate flag are liberals? Who do you really think that the dems of the 1800's would vote for the dems today? That party policies and values haven't changed? Why aren't the southern states "blue" today? Again, only imbeciles would think nothing has changed over 200 years.
     
  13. Tambourine

    Tambourine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2020
    Messages:
    2,707
    Ratings:
    +1,312
    Religion:
    Some Nonsense
    Which liberals are you talking about? The Whigs? The Democrat-Republicans? The Federalists? The Democratic Party? The National Republican Party? All of those were liberal parties, to one extent or another.

    Marxism generally rejects liberalism as a viable political movement for the working class, by the way, primarily as a response to the result of the 1848 revolutions and the 1870 Paris Commune.
     
  14. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    34,976
    Ratings:
    +20,387
    @Shaul and @Nowhere Man , why do a lot of republicans fly "democrat" flags and defend "democrat" statues?
     
  15. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    34,976
    Ratings:
    +20,387
    Yet it's antithetical toward fiscal conservatism.
     
Loading...