US achieves oil independence

[Shaul]

Oh ya, why should we worry about environmental concerns and global warming as surely it's all just a lefty hoax, right?

That has nothing to do with it. Obama did everything he could to stifle oil production, like stalling oil exploration and the Keystone pipeline, then tried to claim claim for oil independence. That’s chutzpah.

 

[metis]

That has nothing to do with it. Obama did everything he could to stifle oil production, like stalling oil exploration and the Keystone pipeline, then tried to claim claim for oil independence. That’s chutzpah.

For you to say that "has nothing to do with it" basically says that you really don't care what happens environmentally and how such changes can negatively affect millions or even billions of others.

And Obama simply did not "stifle" it as there was expansion under his administration. Also, he and most climate scientists believe that we need to move faster to renewable energy sources, which actually creates more domestic jobs than do the carbon-based sources. To "stall", but not necessarily stop, exploration in the Arctic should be done, imo, because of the delicateness of that eco-system.

Also, Keystone sprung a significant leak this last summer, and if you were an Amerindian depending on the water drawn from the aquifer that the pipeline runs over, would you be so calloused?

Again, I'm not stating nor implying that we should stop drilling altogether, only that we really need to be cautious about it and have concern for people who may be negatively affected. Is that really too much to ask?

 

[Woberts]

Great. Now it's easier to ruin your environment. Congratulations are in order for anyone naïve enough to believe that this is a good thing.

 

[Revoltingest]

For you to say that "has nothing to do with it" basically says that you really don't care what happens environmentally and how such changes can negatively affect millions or even billions of others.

And Obama simply did not "stifle" it as there was expansion under his administration. Also, he and most climate scientists believe that we need to move faster to renewable energy sources, which actually creates more domestic jobs than do the carbon-based sources. To "stall", but not necessarily stop, exploration in the Arctic should be done, imo, because of the delicateness of that eco-system.

Also, Keystone sprung a significant leak this last summer, and if you were an Amerindian depending on the water drawn from the aquifer that the pipeline runs over, would you be so calloused?

Again, I'm not stating nor implying that we should stop drilling altogether, only that we really need to be cautious about it and have concern for people who may be negatively affected. Is that really too much to ask?

It seems that you're inferring the wrong thing.
The discussion was about why oil production increased.'
You're confusing this with approval of environmental degradation.

 

[Shaul]

For you to say that "has nothing to do with it" basically says that you really don't care what happens environmentally and how such changes can negatively affect millions or even billions of others.

And Obama simply did not "stifle" it as there was expansion under his administration. Also, he and most climate scientists believe that we need to move faster to renewable energy sources, which actually creates more domestic jobs than do the carbon-based sources. To "stall", but not necessarily stop, exploration in the Arctic should be done, imo, because of the delicateness of that eco-system.

Also, Keystone sprung a significant leak this last summer, and if you were an Amerindian depending on the water drawn from the aquifer that the pipeline runs over, would you be so calloused?

Again, I'm not stating nor implying that we should stop drilling altogether, only that we really need to be cautious about it and have concern for people who may be negatively affected. Is that really too much to ask?

That is a false dichotomy. Someone can be both for environmentalism and for increasing domestic oil production. Domestic oil production produces one ninth of the pollution that foreign oil production dies. Therefore a true environmentalist would want domestic oil instead of foreign oil. Domestic oil productiion fell 10% the last two year of President Obama’s term. Obama certainly stifled production causing it to drop from 9500 to 8500 barrels a day.

The Keystone leak is a red herring. First off it was not on Amerindian land, not even close. Also it has already been mitigated and has not affected any ground water supplies. BTW, the leak was last November, not last summer. So, yeah, “nice try”. So it isn’t that I’m calloused. Are you fear mongering?

 

[Revoltingest]

That is a false dichotomy. Someone can be both for environmentalism and for increasing domestic oil production. Domestic oil production produces one ninth of the pollution that foreign oil production dies. Therefore a true environmentalist would want domestic oil instead of foreign oil. Domestic oil productiion fell 10% the last two year of President Obama’s term. Obama certainly stifled production causing it to drop from 9500 to 8500 barrels a day.

The Keystone leak is a red herring. First off it was not on Amerindian land, not even close. Also it has already been mitigated and has not affected any ground water supplies. So, yeah, “nice try”. So it isn’t that I’m calloused. Are you fear mongering?

We should also note that people (generally) who want to cut fossil fuel usage also
drive cars, take airplanes, & heat their homes (especially in Michiganistan's UP).
This is not to call them hypocrites....don't jump to that conclusion.
It shows that they should consider whence their energy originates. If not here,
then where? They should consider whether the alternatives are better or worse.

 

[metis]

That is a false dichotomy. Someone can be both for environmentalism and for increasing domestic oil production.

I didn't say otherwise if you actually go back and read what I posted. To me, it's not a zero-sum game.

Therefore a true environmentalist would want domestic oil instead of foreign oil.

See above, but also realize that moving gradually to renewable sources is more environmentalistic.

The Keystone leak is a red herring. First off it was not on Amerindian land, not even close.

I didn't say it was, so will you please stop having me take positions that I clearly don't have.

Also it has already been mitigated and has not affected any ground water supplies.

Yet.

What Obama had proposed was to refine the oil in the north and let it be dispersed from there, but the oil companies wanted it piped to the Gulf whereas they could export it.

So it isn’t that I’m calloused. Are you fear mongering?

I'm not "fear mongering", but as we've seen with many of your posts before, you repeatedly have shown that you simply have next to no compassion for others that might be negatively affected, including through climate change, and you have done the same with your endorsement of the Trump tax cuts that will negatively affect millions of lower-income families. But as long as you have a bit more money in your pocket, that all fine & dandy with you, right Shaul?

 

[Shaul]

I didn't say otherwise if you actually go back and read what I posted. To me, it's not a zero-sum game.

See above, but also realize that moving gradually to renewable sources is more environmentalistic.

I didn't say it was, so will you please stop having me take positions that I clearly don't have.
Yet.

What Obama had proposed was to refine the oil in the north and let it be dispersed from there, but the oil companies wanted it piped to the Gulf whereas they could export it.

I'm not "fear mongering", but as we've seen with many of your posts before, you repeatedly have shown that you simply have next to no compassion for others that might be negatively affected, including through climate change, and you have done the same with your endorsement of the Trump tax cuts that will negatively affect millions of lower-income families. But as long as you have a bit more money in your pocket, that all fine & dandy with you, right Shaul?

You asked “Also, Keystone sprung a significant leak this last summer, and if you were an Amerindian depending on the water drawn from the aquifer that the pipeline runs over, would you be so calloused?” Therefore my comments. The leak wasn’t on Amerindian land nor threatened any of their aquifers.

Moving to renewable energy sources is tangential to having abundant oil supplies. We need both.

I have plenty of compassion. I have lots of compassion for people being mislead by false and misleading arguments such as wacko leftist environmentalists make.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

I guess you mean how Obama opened up new oil reserves for development like in the Arctic and Atlantic seacoasts and how he hastened the work on the Keystone pipeline.

No, wait...

Never mind.

That has nothing to do with it. Obama did everything he could to stifle oil production, like stalling oil exploration and the Keystone pipeline, then tried to claim claim for oil independence. That’s chutzpah.

You then go on to cherry pick data about his “last two years” with a decrease in production. Sorry kid, but a picture (or graph) paints a thousand words.

There is absolutely no denying that most of the US oil production increase over the last 40+ years happened on one president’s watch. Obama’s. [Full Stop]

Yes, renewable energy is better. But Republicans have been gutting every effort since Reagan ripped Carter’s solar panels off the White-house, days after moving in (what a schmuck!).
And yes, domestic oil is better for many reasons (including environmental) than foreign.
As one of the first responses pointed out, all of this is more due to oil companies ramping up in the US. Obama thankfully simply delayed the worst of their tactics. tRump has only given those companies more freedom to pollute and destroy, while the proof is clear that they can be very successful and grow, without resorting to such evils. But tRump has opened the gates for pollution after the fight for oil indepenence was already won prior to his arrival.

 

[metis]

You asked “Also, Keystone sprung a significant leak this last summer, and if you were an Amerindian depending on the water drawn from the aquifer that the pipeline runs over, would you be so calloused?” Therefore my comments. The leak wasn’t on Amerindian land nor threatened any of their aquifers.

I can't believe you cannot see through this as what I was referring to with the Amerindian land was what could happen there as well!

Moving to renewable energy sources is tangential to having abundant oil supplies. We need both.

I never said otherwise.

I have plenty of compassion. I have lots of compassion for people being mislead by false and misleading arguments such as wacko leftist environmentalists make.

Oh, my aching head.

Here's the irony, as you have previously called yourself a "conservative". Let me ask you a rhetorical question: How is massively running a deficit estimated at being $1.4 trillion over 10 years "conservative" in any way? Just because you have been overjoyed at having a bit more money in your pocket doesn't make it "conservative, Shaul.

And your support of Trump's willingness to put even children in cages and institute his tax cuts that will hurt the poor and many elderly with massive cuts is hardly "compassionate".