Urantia Book Questions

[The Kilted Heathen]

Well, he claims that anyway...

True enough, but I certainly wouldn't consider that all "preaching against" the ten commandments or Judaism.

Do you think you'll ever find anything that will make less or not a Pagan?

I don't know; I can't know the future. When I was 10 I thought I would be a Christian all my life.

 

[Muffled]

I believe the central view that Jesus is only peaceful is false.

 

[Muffled]

I believe the central view that Jesus is only peaceful is false.

I don't know. I have spent some time on the UB forums but too many of them are "light and lifers". To them, everything is happy, happy, joy, joy, and nothing needs fixing and nothing needs figuring out. Lets all just sprinkle flower petals on everything.

Honestly, I prefer an interesting conversation, even if we disagree.

"bad news on the doorstep, I couldn't take one more step" lyrics from American Pie.

I had to stop watching the news as Jesus says I have enough trouble without having to borrow any.

 

[Muffled]

Urantia is simply, according to the text, the name our planet is known by throughout the universe. I know it sounds crazy but you should read the book before you judge.

I believe I really enjoy Science Fiction so that puts Uranthism in the same category as Scientology then.

 

[BSM1]

I believe I really enjoy Science Fiction so that puts Uranthism in the same category as Scientology then.

That's the difference between you and me. I never believed I enjoyed Sci-Fi, I knew I enjoyed Sci-Fi.

 

[Milton Platt]

How do I account for an article that is criticism of the source of the UB? People believe what they want to believe. They also don't like it when others believe something different, they see it as a criticism. If you were really secure in your own beliefs then you wouldn't care what others believe but none of us are perfectly secure. We all have the feeling that we need to defend them because, in a way, we are defending ourselves.

That statement does not account for the criticism, as it does not address a single point in the criticisms.

So, am I surprised that others don't like what the UB says? Not at all. People killed Jesus. We shouldn't be surprised at anything anyone does.

No reliable way to even know if there was a man named Jesus that was crucified, and in any event, not relevant to criticisms leveled against the Urantia book.

Now, to address the criticism in the article, the UB was channeled, given to a human, not by aliens, by angels. The name Urantia is what the angels call the earth. The Urantia Book is the angels bible.

Provide evidence instead of making an assertion.

If you don't want to believe that angels give humans revelation then you should not believe in any religious text. How exactly did you think it was done? The Book of Revelations was a dream that John had while he was in jail.

Correct, you should go with what you know and not with what you believe. Demonstrate with factual evidence that John existed, that he had a dream, and that Revelations was his dream.

The claim that the book is managed by the Urantia Foundation. Well, it's free online. I wouldn't call that "managed" but okay, whatever.

Free things can be managed......moot point.

As for the racist take on the UB, when information is channeled it has to go through a human. Humans are faulty beings, they are emotional, they want what they want, and at times they put their own prejudice into the message. I know this causes doubt to the validity of the message but here's the thing, it happens in everything we do. Even scientists weave their desires into their theories.

So the Urantia book is subject to human interpretation and tampering, therefore unreliable??? Give an example of where a scientist wove his/her desire into a reproducible, falsifiable theory.

The Urantia Foundation is a cult? A cult is a group with deviant ideas. When the Jews became Jews they were deviating from the neighboring cultures. When Jesus gave us new ideas the early Christians were a cult. New information is always received with skepticism because it doesn't fit with people's preconceived ideas about how God and the universe should work.

What are deviant ideas? deviant from what? Cults are basically movements (religious or non) that are small and not in the mainstream.

The Urantia Book followers have blinding faith and empty hopes and nothing more? As if other religious people are not blindly faithful?

Right on both counts.

The scientific concepts are outdated and based upon the ideas of the time? Well, if the solar system formed from a condensing cloud of gas then how come the sun rotates perpendicular to the ecliptic plane? It would rotate the same direction as the ecliptic plane if it all came from a condensing nebula.

Influence of other celestial bodies on orbiting objects? The sun's axis is a little more that 7 degrees out......but it does rotate at different speeds depending on distance from equator (it is a gas)
What do you mean to imply?

Also, the big bang never happened. If it did there would be a hollow area at the center of the universe. There isn't one. Galaxies are evenly distributed. The scientists found that every galaxy was moving away from each other so they thought that it all came from the same place but a big bang violates the law of gravity. If you have to change your known laws of physics to fit an idea, maybe the idea is incorrect. All the scientists can say is that galaxies are moving away from each other, not that they all came from one big bang. There is much more I could post about this subject but this is getting long enough as it is.

What were the laws of gravity at the instant of the big bang? (please show your work) Maybe the physicists and cosmologists are wrong....please show your own work so that you may claim the Nobel that awaits you.

The article ends with the author trying to tell you that he is not concerned with the birth of life, extraterrestrials, and that he lives in the NOW and make the best of it. Good for him. That's not enough for me. I want answers. I want to know how things really work.

We all would like answers. making **** up is not the same thing.

 

[Super Universe]

We all would like answers. making **** up is not the same thing.

I addressed some of the points, here I'll try again. Maybe if you can provide a specific question then I will give you a specific answer?

Criticism:

1 - The UB book was communicated by some celestial beings, or aliens.

Answer: It was channeled by a human from the angels. You don't have to agree.

2 - The book is managed by the Urantia Foundation.

Answer: True, they print the book but I wouldn't call that "managing" it.

3 - William Sadler channeled and wrote the book?

Answer: I don't know who wrote the book, don't care either. No one knows who wrote the books of the bible either.

4 - William Sadler was married to Lena Kellogg and in 1876 John Harvey Kellog was a controversial medical doctor and he was a 7th Day Adventist and, the article claims, 7th Day Adventists are white supremecists?

Answer: In 1876 there were a lot of racists in the US and the world. And, the UB actually says the Asian race is superior, not the white race. How would a supposed white supremecist make a claim that asian's are the superior race?

5 - Some guy named Martin Gardner claims that Wilfred Kellogg wrote the UB?

Answer: I don't care who wrote it.

6 - The UB followers is a cult?

Answer: True. So are athiests.

7 - The UB claims that some species have evolved from single mutations without transitional species?

Answer: The UB does not say that life evolves from single mutations. It says that new life forms appear suddenly. If you disagree, perhaps you should do some research on Punctuated Equilibrium.

8 - The UB was edited?

Answer: You think channeling 1,806 pages of material wouldn't have any errors in it? The back of the UB shows what edits were made and where.

The Buddhist parable the author uses conflicts with his argument. Part of his argument against the UB was that the authorship of the UB is questionable, but the parable says that you shouldn't worry about "who did something, what they used, and where", you should just "don't worry, be happy".

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

6 - The UB followers is a cult?

Answer: True. So are athiests.

False: Atheists are not a belief system.

 

[BSM1]

I addressed some of the points, here I'll try again. Maybe if you can provide a specific question then I will give you a specific answer?

Criticism:

1 - The UB book was communicated by some celestial beings, or aliens.

Answer: It was channeled by a human from the angels. You don't have to agree.

2 - The book is managed by the Urantia Foundation.

Answer: True, they print the book but I wouldn't call that "managing" it.

3 - William Sadler channeled and wrote the book?

Answer: I don't know who wrote the book, don't care either. No one knows who wrote the books of the bible either.

4 - William Sadler was married to Lena Kellogg and in 1876 John Harvey Kellog was a controversial medical doctor and he was a 7th Day Adventist and, the article claims, 7th Day Adventists are white supremecists?

Answer: In 1876 there were a lot of racists in the US and the world. And, the UB actually says the Asian race is superior, not the white race. How would a supposed white supremecist make a claim that asian's are the superior race?

5 - Some guy named Martin Gardner claims that Wilfred Kellogg wrote the UB?

Answer: I don't care who wrote it.

6 - The UB followers is a cult?

Answer: True. So are athiests.

7 - The UB claims that some species have evolved from single mutations without transitional species?

Answer: The UB does not say that life evolves from single mutations. It says that new life forms appear suddenly. If you disagree, perhaps you should do some research on Punctuated Equilibrium.

8 - The UB was edited?

Answer: You think channeling 1,806 pages of material wouldn't have any errors in it? The back of the UB shows what edits were made and where.

The Buddhist parable the author uses conflicts with his argument. Part of his argument against the UB was that the authorship of the UB is questionable, but the parable says that you shouldn't worry about "who did something, what they used, and where", you should just "don't worry, be happy".

According to my reading the book was channeled through a person while they slept. Dr. Sadler simply transcribed the readings. This sleeper was believed by some to be Edgar Cayce.

 

[Super Universe]

According to my reading the book was channeled through a person while they slept. Dr. Sadler simply transcribed the readings. This sleeper was believed by some to be Edgar Cayce.

I don't know who wrote it and I really don't care. Information is information. Judge it on it's own. Some think that some human from the 1950's made it all up, there's no way. If you've read it you would know. The ideas are way, way, out there. And the detailed information on Jesus life is just too much for someone to make up and have it make sense. You're telling me that a human thought up Jesus ten rules for what rich people should do with their money?

People really want to believe what they want to believe. They allow their emotions to influence their beliefs.

Some people, conservative Christians, don't like that the UB says that there is intelligent life on other planets. To them, there can't be any aliens because that would make them feel less important to God. They're inflated ego would take a big hit if aliens really exist.

Some people, mostly conservative Christians as well, also don't understand channeling. They don't know that's how revelation gets into humanity in the first place. Where did they think the information in their bible came from?

Athiests don't like the UB because it promotes the idea of God, Jesus, and angels.

No one cares about the truth. They just want to get their way with the universe.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

No one cares about the truth. They just want to get their way with the universe.

Seems to be the case with Urantia when people dismiss it as fiction; as much as you accuse others of wanting their way with the universe that's "not theirs", you want them to heed your book's message.

 

[BSM1]

I don't know who wrote it and I really don't care. Information is information. Judge it on it's own. Some think that some human from the 1950's made it all up, there's no way. If you've read it you would know. The ideas are way, way, out there. And the detailed information on Jesus life is just too much for someone to make up and have it make sense. You're telling me that a human thought up Jesus ten rules for what rich people should do with their money?

People really want to believe what they want to believe. They allow their emotions to influence their beliefs.

Some people, conservative Christians, don't like that the UB says that there is intelligent life on other planets. To them, there can't be any aliens because that would make them feel less important to God. They're inflated ego would take a big hit if aliens really exist.

Some people, mostly conservative Christians as well, also don't understand channeling. They don't know that's how revelation gets into humanity in the first place. Where did they think the information in their bible came from?

Athiests don't like the UB because it promotes the idea of God, Jesus, and angels.

No one cares about the truth. They just want to get their way with the universe.

Whoa! I'm on your side. I have read it and I was just filling in some background information. Edgar Cayce is probably one of the most well known psychics from the 1930's. He was known as "The Sleeping Prophet", and there is an Edgar Cayce Institute in Virginia Beach, Virginia, dedicated to studying his and others' psychic work. You might want to look into him; he was a fascinating man.

 

[InChrist]

How do you think that the books of the bible were given to the Jews and first Christians? Do you think all of them saw a burning bush? If someone today saw a burning bush that spoke to them and said it was God, what would you think? You're not applying the same standard to the UB that you give to the bible.

The high diety's and supermortal personalities are angels. They have different levels and different names for their groups but they just angels.

The bible gives warning about receiving information from spirit beings? Jesus said that you can tell whether something is from a good or bad source by it's fruit. The devil cannot stand if he defy's himself.

William Sadler and others with abilities, to some degree, feel compelled to do what they do. It's like asking a musician not to play music. You, obviously, don't have any abilities so to you, it's bad. You judge them but don't see the speck in your own eye.

The UB does not deny the resurrection of Jesus. It goes into more detail than the bible does about it.

The UB does deny the need for His saving grace because we always had the chance at salvation. It wasn't something new. Jesus awakened the sleeping survivors once He ascended to heaven. The gateway to heaven was closed before Jesus completed His earthly mission but once He finished and ascended to "heaven" it was opened.

The UB denies the shepherds heard the singing of the angels at the birth of Christ? Wow, the whole world must be crazy, I mean, that's like the most important thing ever. What the heck, you mean the shepherds didn't really hear angels singing? Oh well, that's just crazy. We can't have real Christianity without shepherds hearing angels singing songs.

The goal is not to unify all religions. The goal is for people to realize they never needed religion in the first place. And it's not a race.

My point in bringing up the shepherds/angels singing was simply to show that within the Urantia Book even events as seemingly insignificant as this are revised. Why? My perspective is that the Urantia Book is an attempt (on the part of demonic beings) to channel and present humanity with a contrary and detailed historical revision in opposition to all the core teachings of the biblical scriptures and faith which was once and for all delivered by God (Jude 1:3).

The Bible was written by approximately 40 men of various backgrounds over the course of 1500 years, as they were inspired by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:21) and no they did not all see a burning bush. Not sure why you said that or what it is supposed to mean.... other than sarcasm. The focus of the scriptures, despite the variety of writers, is the birth, life, and resurrection of the Messiah to save sinful humanity. Yet the Urantia Book alters His mission and discounts His redeeming sacrifice. He made out to be more of an enlightened one opening the doors of heaven as he shows others how to attain divinity. The Urantia book presents a Jesus that is not the same as the historical Jesus revealed in the scriptures and therefore from my view it cannot be inspired by God, accurate, or reliable.

In a way, I agree with you, the goal isn't necessarily to unite all religions. The goal is to create a universal mindset that will incorporate those from all religions whereby everyone believes they may attain divinity on their own with no need of redemption through Jesus Christ. The Bible does prophetically reveal this kind of spiritually or one world religion occurring on a global scale at the end of the age.

 

[Super Universe]

My point in bringing up the shepherds/angels singing was simply to show that within the Urantia Book even events as seemingly insignificant as this are revised. Why? My perspective is that the Urantia Book is an attempt (on the part of demonic beings) to channel and present humanity with a contrary and detailed historical revision in opposition to all the core teachings of the biblical scriptures and faith which was once and for all delivered by God (Jude 1:3).

The Bible was written by approximately 40 men of various backgrounds over the course of 1500 years, as they were inspired by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:21) and no they did not all see a burning bush. Not sure why you said that or what it is supposed to mean.... other than sarcasm. The focus of the scriptures, despite the variety of writers, is the birth, life, and resurrection of the Messiah to save sinful humanity. Yet the Urantia Book alters His mission and discounts His redeeming sacrifice. He made out to be more of an enlightened one opening the doors of heaven as he shows others how to attain divinity. The Urantia book presents a Jesus that is not the same as the historical Jesus revealed in the scriptures and therefore from my view it cannot be inspired by God, accurate, or reliable.

In a way, I agree with you, the goal isn't necessarily to unite all religions. The goal is to create a universal mindset that will incorporate those from all religions whereby everyone believes they may attain divinity on their own with no need of redemption through Jesus Christ. The Bible does prophetically reveal this kind of spiritually or one world religion occurring on a global scale at the end of the age.

Why does the Urantia Book not include information that the shepherds heard angels singing when Jesus was born? Maybe it didn't happen, that's why. You think the bible tells the truth when the bible was written by ignorant men who were afraid of comets. Some of the Old Testament books were temple policy books and were never meant to be taken as the word of God.

The UB is an attempt by demons to channel? How exactly do you think revelation comes to humans? You might want to look up Emperor Constantine and read about how he heard a voice in his head and saw a sign in the sky and suddenly he became a Christian. You might want to do some research the Apostle Paul and find out how he changed his mind and suddenly began preaching Christianity, he heard a voice in his head on the road to Damascus.

Where do you think the Book of Revelations came from? Where do you think the stories of Adam and Eve came from? Books were not invented until long, long after Adam and Eve lived, how did the humans who lived thousands of years later know the story? Everyone didn't get a talking burning bush. Most of it came in dreams, sometimes people heard a voice inside their head. When someone hears a voice inside their head, that's called channeling.

I know people like you. You follow whatever the preacher man says, even when it's not Chrisitanity. You haven't done any research yourself. You're a follower. Whatever the preacher man says must be right.

Jude 1:3 talks about faith and supposedly the UB doesn't? The human understanding of God has evolved for thousands of years but, each time there is new revelation, many humans won't accept it. The Jews are still stuck in 3,000 year old God Theory. Why? Because they think their old ideas are supreme. They think it means that God changes when it's not that God changes His ways, it's that humans were and are so ignorant that they didn't understand that "an eye for an eye" was wrong and did not come from God.

The bible was inspired by the holy spirit? Really, what did God want with money then? You shall pay a ransom on the census. How did the priests get the money to God? Why did God give us "an eye for an eye" and then change it to forgiveness?

You're not sure why I asked whether all the writers of the books of the bible saw a burning bush? I know you're confused. I've known people like you my whole life. You take it all on face value. You're a follower. You don't ask the tough questions. You want to believe in the old idea of God because you like it when He punishes those who believe differently than you do. To you, that's the best part. It makes you feel better about yourself. They're going to burn and you're going to paradise.

Let me guess, you don't believe in evolution but you've never taken a college course so you don't even know what the theory of evolution is. You trust the preacher man but the thing is this, the preacher man hasn't taken a college course on it either.

I tried to count how many times the word faith comes up in the UB. There were so many I lost count. So, you're idea that the UB doesn't preach faith is incorrect.

You think that the bible's focus is the birth, life, and resurrection of the Messiah? Oh yeah, then why did they leave out the first 30 years of Jesus life? The UB details every year of Jesus life. The Apocrypha tells stories of Jesus growing up. I bet you haven't even read the Apocrypha, have you?

God does not work through any religion or church. Abraham was not a leader of any religion. Moses was not a religious leader. Buddha was not a religious leader. John the Baptist was not a religious leader. Jesus was not a religious leader. Mohammed was not a religious leader.

I wish people like you would just get right to the point and tell me the specific parts that you can't accept. I figure it's either the part about aliens, or maybe the part about God not being involved in us, the "Chrisitan" ego can't handle either of those. You think you're so important. You think you're going to be in charge of something important in heaven.

You're not.

 

[Muffled]

That's the difference between you and me. I never believed I enjoyed Sci-Fi, I knew I enjoyed Sci-Fi.

I believe I have never had my beliefs challenged on this subject. I suppose RF should go on nerd alert, lol. I am also a fan of fantasy as long as people don't start confusing it with reality. Game of Thrones , Wheel of Time, Forgotten Realms, LOTR etc. I am also a fan of Historical fiction the best being Outlander and mythology.

 

[Muffled]

According to my reading the book was channeled through a person while they slept. Dr. Sadler simply transcribed the readings. This sleeper was believed by some to be Edgar Cayce.

I believe the problem with channeling is that one does not know whether the source knows what it is talking about or if it is speaking the truth or deliberately lying.

 

[BSM1]

I believe the problem with channeling is that one does not know whether the source knows what it is talking about or if it is speaking the truth or deliberately lying.

Just passing along some info...

 

[Furchizedek]

Pssst....
You might want to put a link to said book if you can.

Index: Urantia Book Parts

 

[Furchizedek]

I have no criticisms. I don't even know what you're talking about. Too many fringe, cult type of things to keep track of these days.

Talking about The Urantia Book. And no, it's not a "fringe, cult type of thing." It's just a book. No one will indoctrinate you.

 

[Muffled]

Index: Urantia Book Parts

What I read was fun but it smacks of SciFi.