No idea. I'm not sure what the issue is - apart from the OP making a load of silly statements.
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Universe Vs Multiverse!
- Thread starter Yusef
- Start date
No idea. I'm not sure what the issue is - apart from the OP making a load of silly statements.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
To you and me, yes. But if it is to silly, my subjective experience tells me that it won't work to engage.
Perhaps to others it does though.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yes, of course.
Methinks you are making up bs to cause friction
Yusef
Member
Means If the science hasn't ever arrived at the Religion,
It's problem of the science!
It's weakness of the science!
And in the future the science arrives at the same things the Religion says!
Shi'a-Hadith
"...you are our[the Twelver] followers, and agree everything we say... but at the AkhiruzZaman[End Times] there will be the science with the more strength as the scientists split an web of hair[means carefully researching] and they provide the same things we say through the SCIENCE!"
Well,
1. Size of the cosmos
2. Circulation of the blood within the vein
3. Existence of the creatures inside of the stone that bear children and die such as we humans
4. Curving the Time the thing the great scientist, Albert Einstein[r.a] said
5. Hidden civilizations places of the same earth that are not generation of Adam
6. Other foreign civilizations in other universes that think there isn't any other creatures but themselves..
7. Etc..
I'll quoted them step by step God Willing
Yusef
Member
Yea of course I enjoy create an wild ventured discovery group and go around the world for discovery hahaHere to make friends are you? Good start.
Yusef
Member
First of all those arrogant atheist scientists claim the same.
2. I didn't invite others to looking at just Shi'a-Islam!
But all the Religions.
Look at these verifications/connections/confirmation of each other:
â—„ Psalm 18:9 â–º
He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
18:10 â–º
And he rode on a cherub, and did fly: yes, he did fly on the wings of the wind.
18:11 â–º
He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
18:12 â–º
At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.
18:13 â–º
The LORD also thundered
â—„ Psalm 104:3 â–º
Who lays the beams of his chambers in the waters: who makes the clouds his chariot: who walks on the wings of the wind
Tell me, before watching this clip[Hadith] would you able to realize what these verses of Torah/Psalms say??
Claim what? I think you misunderstand what is being claimed. Could you give a reference?
So what? I don't consider them to be authoritative either. Not to mention the verses you quote don't seem to have any relevance to the discussion.
Yusef
Member
The non-fool scientists such as Albert Einstein[r.a] had been aware about a Shi'a-Hadith that says:
"..At the time of Ascension of the prophet Muhammad[S.A.A.W.A] a jug fell down and it's waters was raining out..
Then the prophet went to the first heaven and me two cousins, prophet Jesus and Yahya[pbu both] then the second heaven met one other prophet and Aaron and Moses and up to the 7th heaven that met Abraham peace be upon all, then went to the up to the Throne and met God and talked directly with Him and returned back, then the jug, the waters was raining out yet!!!"
Means the Time was curved/paused!!
Well,
The Sunni Muslims say that the prophet went to heaven in dream!
But Shi'a-Islam says and insist that one of the signs of our Shi'as is believe the same BODILY ASCENSION!
This hadith plus that the previous are evidences that the science of scientists of end times will discover the fact!
Yea!
I forgot add an other hadith to the clip!
Shi'a-Hadith
"...there are for Allah 12000 universes that each one of them is greater than this 7 heavens of you! and the creatures of them think there isn't any other univers but themselves!"
Yusef
Member
First of all tell us about your sources of debating..
That we know whom we are debating with
Logic Vs Foolishness
That debate based on the same doctrines you are following
Of course not. Why would it? Science and religion are different things, with different interests, methods and goals.
Science is an investigative discipline that draws testable, repeatable conclusions from observable, measurable facts. Science studies mechanism. It investigates how. It has nothing to do with values, morality or the supernatural.
Science is falsifiable, and everything scientific is provisional.
Religion does none of this. It's not interested in mechanism. It discourages investigation and testing.
Religion is about values, propriety and the supernatural. It's about magic. It does posit objective facts, but it doesn't test them or even investigate them. Its beliefs are based on folklore and speculation. They are not falsifiable. They're faith based, not fact based.
Why? You'll have to explain this. It makes no sense.
But they're completely different things, with different goals and methods.
A taxi isn't going to take you to Hawaii. A bricklayer isn't going to program the trajectory of a Mars probe. A mathematician isn't going to style your hair. A baker isn't going to compose a symphony, and a scientist isn't going to explain the will of an invisible God.
I don't understand what this list is supposed to mean. Please explain it.
Why do you say scientists are arrogant, and what is it you think they all claim?
If they all claim something, don't you think there might be something to it? Have you looked into why scientists claim whatever it is you disagree with?
How are unevidenced, untested scriptures verifications of anything? They're claims, at best. They verify nothing.
Yusef, with all due respect, you really don't understand what's meant by evidence or verification, nor do you understand the scientific purview or methodology.
Anyone can quote from books, but unless the quotes are fact based, testable and falsifiable, they can't be considered correct.
This is your post hoc interpretation, and I have no idea how you arrived at it. Einstein, if he did know of this Hadith, did not rely on it for any of his conclusions.
Hadiths are not evidence! Please learn what evidence is.
gnostic
The Lost One
That also don’t make any sense, Yusef.
Why would Science ever need to “arrive at the Religion”?
Well, there is a difference between using science as my reference and using the opinions of scientists on non-science related material. I prefer the actual science.
Also, no scientist is always correct. Einstein got a LOT wrong (but also a lot right). Ultimately it is the evidence that tells who is right and who is wrong.
It can, but usually isn't.
Which is a rhetorical way to get a point across. Not a truth, but merely flowery language saying a commonplace.
But of course, that's not science. There are other more scientific ways to prove that truth.
Precisely. The poetry does not prove the truth. At best, it relates it in memorable language.
The trap is that it can also present falsehoods and nonsense in flowery language and make them look attractive.
Nor should it. Science deals with facts and truth Religion deals with myth and superstition.
It is neither a problem nor a weakness. It is a great strength.
Only when religion accidentally stumbles on something that can be interpreted after the fact.
gnostic
The Lost One
Sorry but the Night Journey or al'Isra' wal-Mi'raj, both from the Qur'an (sura al-Isra) and from the Hadith (Sahih al-Bukhari) are nothing more than fairytale.
From what I understand about al-Isra passage about travelling from the mosque in Mecca to al-Masjid al-Aqsa, translated to the "Furthest Mosque", which have been interpreted since the early 8th century as Mosque in Jerusalem.
The biggest problems with this:
- Muhammad has never been to Jerusalem.
- There was never a mosque in Jerusalem, during Muhammad's lifetime.
So, the mosque never existed until it was completed in 705 CE.
Another thing, is that the direct distance between Mecca and Jerusalem is 1238 km; but there are no direct route, so the distance is even greater.
There are no such mean of transport to travel that distance, in the single night.
According to this hadith, Gabriel brought the steed no bigger than a mule, called Buraq to travel there. The Qur'an make no mention of any steed, and even Gabriel isn't mention in this sura or chapter.
The al-Mi'raq part of this fairytale is Muhammad ascension to 7 heavens, meeting prophets and even God himself before the Throne of God is only narrated in the hadith, not in the Qur'an.
The whole story of this Night Journey is fake, invented and embellished. It has been copied and adapted from the 2nd book of Enoch, who also ascended to the heavens, 10, not 7 heavens, before reaching the throne of God.
Enoch was one of the ancestors of Noah, Noah's great grandfather. He was supposed taken to heavens by 2 angels, and Enoch supposedly became the "Scribe of God", supposedly writing about the creation and the prophecy of the Flood.
The story of Muhammad's ascent to heaven is no more believable than that of Enoch, but at least, 2 Enoch was more original. Muhammad is just a copycat, to glorify Muhammad.
But the mortals' ascent to heavens didn't originate from any Abrahamic religions.
The earliest that I can think of, is the Epic of Etana. A clay tablet was found dated to some time in the 1st half of the 2nd millennia BCE (between 1895 and 1595 BCE), written in Old Babylonian.
I won’t say anything more about Etana (because I know that Muslims have the tendencies to ignore or hate Sumerian and Babylonian cultures and pagan religions), other than that Etana flew to heavens and met the gods, flying on the back of a large eagle. At least, Etana’s story the eagle naturally have wings, steeds, like horses, donkeys and mules don’t have wings, so impossible creatures.
My points that all mortals ascent to heavens to meet the god/gods, are myths, including the one about Muhammad.
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