Universal health care would be a good thing

[Reverend Rick]

in the fantasy world you described above, there is no injustice.
To bad the real world does not adhere to the fantasy land you presented above.

Or did you "forget" the other groups of people.
You know, the ones don't fit into your little rant?

No I did not forget them, they where not helpful to my position.

 

[Storm]

No I did not forget them, they where not helpful to my position.

You were just being dishonest, then?

 

[DallasApple]

If a heart transplant cost a MILLION dollars??? Someone is gettng friggen RICH!

Im sure its the "powers that be"...Probably a couple of fat pigs..Not the doctors or nurses...Some big pig wigs sitting in their fat chair raking it in..
Its SICKO!

But it doesnt surprise me ONE bit...my husband had YET another kidney stone..They are (normally) non life threatening but excruciatingly painful...

He went to the emergency room...He got an x-ray..which confirmed a stone..2 shots of morphine ...and released..(this over about a 5 hour period of time)...WE PAID 2,500 DOLLARS!...For PAIN RELIEF! And an X-RAY..Thats WITH INSURANCE!

Love

Dallas

 

[Reverend Rick]

So you agree that if countries with universal health coverage have lower cost per capita, higher satisfaction and better mortality rates, that universal health coverage would be a good thing? If so, I will go research it. If not, why not?

I'm not going to agree that socialism is a better system even though many people reap the advantages of a system like that. I believe that life owes you an opportunity, not a free ride in life. People who are given everything without having to work for it do not have an incentive to get off their butts and try to achieve the American dream.

If doctors did not have big houses and airplanes, why would I aspire to be like them? I am not smart enough to be a doctor, but it is a challenge to achieve greatness. Why some folks don't try to achieve their dreams, I will never know, unless it is because they are satisfied with the mundane and working for a living is just too hard for them. They have to go to bed early and get up and work every day. Why do that when someone else will provide your basic needs for you?

Socialised medicine is just like welfare. people are satisfied with very little. They would rather have very few things for free than pay for everything themselves.

Giving people things really is a disservice to them. If we could get them to try to achieve greatness, they might just do it! It is sad people are willing to settle for so little in life.

Here is where I am ready to have a civil war. You can be satisfied with your lot in life, but don't you EVER try to limit what folks can have. What is wrong with having an airplane? Doctors deserve to have the best and socialized medicine is an attempt to rob them of what is rightfully theirs.

The brightest minds will not go into medicine if you turn it into a menial job that pays less than they make now. That is why my friend came to Kentucky from Quebec

 

[Reverend Rick]

You were just being dishonest, then?

Storm honey, do you understand the concept of debate? Of course both sides have valid points and everyone has exceptions to parade out. It is the job of the opposition to point these things out. It is not being dishonest so long as you do not deny the facts, you don't have to bring them up.

Mestemia gets tore up when I don't comment on something, but he does not address every issue either. No one can do that, it would be super human.

 

[Storm]

Storm honey, do you understand the concept of debate?

Yes, I do. Do you understand the concept of honesty?

Of course both sides have valid points and everyone has exceptions to parade out. It is the job of the opposition to point these things out. It is not being dishonest so long as you do not deny the facts, you don't have to bring them up.

Guess not.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Yes, I do. Do you understand the concept of honesty?


Guess not.

LOL, when I was totally honest with mestemia about his posts is when you brought up my honesty. I have never said that socialised medicine might not be a good deal for some folks, me included.

I debate on principles. Earn what you have and be self reliant. Government run anything is a clustertruck at best because it is wasteful and full of abuse.

There is always going to be folks who slip through the cracks. That is what charity is for.

 

[Storm]

Charity is insufficient.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Charity is insufficient.

I can take you to people's houses that are given to them free and in full with no mortgage that might disagree with you. I can take you to our food bank and on any given day, they might disagree with you as well.

My church built a battered women's shelter. You might find a few people there that are glad to have a safe roof over their head.

If you mean charity is not all providing, you are correct. Why should your life be all provided for?

 

[Storm]

I was discussing the healthcare situation. You're off-topic.

 

[Yerda]

I can take you to people's houses that are given to them free and in full with no mortgage that might disagree with you. I can take you to our food bank and on any given day, they might disagree with you as well

Doesn't that clash a bit with your expectation that people must earn what they have?

 

[NoahideHiker]

Yes, well, it's the World Health Organisation gathering the statistics, using the devious leftist methodology of research. I even posted a link so you can go gather some in your own way and present them with whatever conclusions your own assemblage leads you to draw.

Or you can just dismiss the whole notion of facts, research and analysis and stick to simplistic, vague "expert opinions" from free market propagandists.

Or you can read this article in the New York Times.

The problem you have to face is that the belief that the US system is in any way superior to countries with universal health coverage is factually incorrect.

But you just proved my point perfectly. You cite a New York Times article as proof. Again, it's all in who is gathering the info and how they want to present it. And many times it's what's NOT cited as much as what IS cited.

The whole argument is moot because it is not the government's job to provide it's citizens health care. Going a step further, it is not within their power to do so. Healthcare is no more a "right" than food is.

 

[DallasApple]

WHY is it SO expensive..I dont MIND paying for it I ALWAYS have..

I dotn WANT smeone else to have to PAY for my healthcare..

But WHY if I go to have a pap smear and a breast exam in a doctors office and a mamogram (dr. recomended) does it cost me EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love

Dallas

 

[Alceste]

Geeze, lighten up mestemia, it was a joke. You always play the gotcha game, guess what, I have had cancer since I was 21 years old. Nice thing to happen after serving your country huh? I have had radiation till I can have no more, chemo and seven operations. If you must know, the reason I don't reply to many of your posts is because I can find no fault with them.

Guess what buddie, the reason I quit smoking is because I need to have another operation which I am putting off while I make enough money to pay for it myself and have capital to live on while I recuperate. I could let someone else run my company, but I am afraid I would have nothing when I came back. Can you understand that?

I don't get to negotiate my fees like insurance companies do and I am way to well off for assistance. I am ripe for the pickings. I can't file bankruptcy because I am fortunate to have something to show for my life and could sell everything I own and pay my expenses. You don't see me crying about my lot in life. I take it on the chin like a man. Life aint fair and you are smart enough to know this.

If you think I hold my positions just for fun, you can kiss my butt. I am a man of principles even when they work against me.

Rick, I'm sorry to hear that. But it does bring up an interesting point: I guess it would be me paying for your healthcare if you were Canadian, since I've had nothing but a CAT scan in 15 years of paying into the system. You say you're worth a million - I'm worth about 300 bucks until payday. But because I am healthy and you are ill, I would be paying for you.

Would that bother me? Not at all. I'm thankful for my health, and thankful that Canadians (even rich ones) don't suffer financial hardship in addition to their illnesses, because it's so much harder to heal when you're highly stressed out.

 

[Alceste]

But you just proved my point perfectly. You cite a New York Times article as proof. Again, it's all in who is gathering the info and how they want to present it. And many times it's what's NOT cited as much as what IS cited.

The whole argument is moot because it is not the government's job to provide it's citizens health care. Going a step further, it is not within their power to do so. Healthcare is no more a "right" than food is.

I don't cite it as "proof". I cite the WHO's data as "proof". I cite the NY times commentary because you said "proof" doesn't convince you.

Is there anything that does?

Did you miss my post where I mentioned that Americans already pay more to the government for health care than Canadians? The US gov't spends over $400 more per capita on health care than Canada's. THEN, ON TOP OF THAT, Americans pay that much again, and then some out of their own pockets for health care. And the care is worse. The fact you're comfortable with that just because it appeals to some vague concept of free market you have committed to is astounding.

 

[Alceste]

If doctors did not have big houses and airplanes, why would I aspire to be like them? I am not smart enough to be a doctor, but it is a challenge to achieve greatness. Why some folks don't try to achieve their dreams, I will never know...

Some folks dream of social justice.

 

[NoahideHiker]

I don't cite it as "proof". I cite the WHO's data as "proof". I cite the NY times commentary because you said "proof" doesn't convince you.

Is there anything that does?

Did you miss my post where I mentioned that Americans already pay more to the government for health care than Canadians? The US gov't spends over $400 more per capita on health care than Canada's. THEN, ON TOP OF THAT, Americans pay that much again, and then some out of their own pockets for health care. And the care is worse. The fact you're comfortable with that just because it appeals to some vague concept of free market you have committed to is astounding.

And the WHO is 100% unbiased? Yeah, ya keep thinking that. Our own CDC isn't unbiased and bends stats.

Did you miss my post where I mentioned that Americans already pay more to the government for health care than Canadians?

Yes I missed it. I also think it's a big mistake to keep comparing Canada to America. It's Apples to oranges.

 

[Alceste]

And the WHO is 100% unbiased? Yeah, ya keep thinking that. Our own CDC isn't unbiased and bends stats.

Did you miss my post where I mentioned that Americans already pay more to the government for health care than Canadians?

Yes I missed it. I also think it's a big mistake to keep comparing Canada to America. It's Apples to oranges.

I think FACTS are unbiased, and the WHO has done the best they can to collect FACTS. You don't need to trust the WHO, though, Canadian and US Budget expenditures are a matter of public record. You can look them up for yourself, practically anywhere, or directly from their federal websites.

What about comparing America to every other industrialised country in the world - all of which have some degree of universal health care, and nearly all of which perform much better at half the cost? It's not "apples and oranges" as much as it is "edible apples and rotten ones". The US has failed at health care. Epically. So why not look to the example of more successful countries like Canada?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I was discussing the health care situation. You're off-topic.

But my honesty being called to question was on topic? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Some folks dream of social justice.

Let me tell you about social justice. Social justice is a volunteer army not the draft system that was controlling my life. Rich kids went to college while I put my life on the line.

Now, that I have worked all my life and accumulated something, fairness to you is that I share my wealth.

It is the same thing about raising children. When I was a child, we should be seen but not heard. Children did not come first. We where told we would get our turn when we grow up. They lied, children come first now. I'm not saying that is wrong, but my generation got skipped.

Same for social security, my generation pays for every ones checks and the government even spends the surplus each month. When the baby boomers retire, (because we quit paying), the system will be in the toilet and we will not get our fair share.

We are the largest and greatest generation ever to come along. We have given our children every advantage in life and the American standard of living is the best it has ever been. The result of this phenomena is the generation after us expects to be coddled in adulthood like they where when they where kids.