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Featured Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 74x12, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I was not expecting a substantive or candid
    response, but more news of the obvious?

    It is a highly legitimate question I asked.
    But your godies are most reluctant to address it.
     
    #81 Audie, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  2. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Right. Everyone says that of everyone outside their chosen cult
    Its why chridtianity has no credibility.
     
  3. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I love the irony of posting nothing but a Bible verse to support your position that we can't properly understand the Bible without external help. :D
     
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  4. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    I have been waiting for the "real" "inspired" interpretation of it.
    I mean, if I have to have to be possessed in order to understand it and all...
     
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  5. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Well, you know, those people are in such a silly and
    untenable situation, its hardly sport to take advantage of them
     
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  6. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    The implication of this though is that there is no way of determining who has the true interpretation or not. So nobody will know who the true Christians are.
     
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  7. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    If God is read as a self contradiction, isn't science owner of that same choice.

    To contradict self, as if self does not exist, human but just God...the power?

    Yet a male says I own all the power of God the Universe inside of my body.

    And he is just a near to water body as a bio life is...with bones.

    Historically science said that water was formed in space O whilst God bodies burnt.

    So water, gets pushed to the ground by cooling hot dense gases from space, held to the Earth, and has what put through it?

    Radiation....all the power in the Universe if you cared to think about the irrational male self contradictory statements he reads daily about God telling you, no man is God, yet you want to contradict what God statements claim.

    Science a self contradiction...I am the powers of the universe, kills self with radiation.
     
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  8. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    Outside? Yeah, exactly as it should be. Inside is much more important issue.
     
  9. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    I'm beginning to sense a theme here. This is really what Christianity is all about - outsourcing one's one autonomy. If you want to get to heaven, submit, obey. Blessed are the meek. Adam and Eve were cursed for disobedience. Those that don't obey are called rebellious and people attempting to evade accountability, then chided for taking control of their own lives for playing God.

    That's how it was from inside Christianity. The mindset was infantilizing, continually being treated like a child. Of course, the military was the same

    As a secular humanist, I have assumed responsibility for my life again. I don't submit to anything but the law, and I do that willingly, and feel like I am cooperating rather than submitting. Likewise, I cooperate with others, neither of us submitting to the other.

    Christianity is all about hierarchies - those with less power submitting to those with more power - man to God, subjects to kings, slaves to masters, and wives to husbands.

    A modern, enlightened, free citizen rejects all of that. He bows to no god or king. His wife is his equal. He doesn't own people. He is an equal, empowered, free - all ideas I imbibed growing up in 20th century America. Live free or die. Don't tread on me. This obedience and submission mindset is alien to me, and I can't find a reason to submit to the commands in a holy book.

    It looks like you are saying that scripture is not allegory, but I'm not sure. That's my position, anyway - these stories aren't allegories or metaphors. They're just mistakes that have been corrected by science..

    The word allegory is used in place of the word error when describing stories like the creation story and the flood story, since error isn't acceptable.

    An allegory is a story where the characters and their actions are chosen by the author to stand for something from history or contemporary life on a one-for-one basis - this stands for A, that stands for B, etc..

    Consider Gulliver's Travels, a political allegory, where specific fictional characters performing specific fictional feats stand for actual people doing actual things.

    "One clear example of Swift's use of political allegory is the Rope Dancers, who are Lilliputians seeking employment in the government, All candidates are asked to dance on the rope and whoever jumps the highest without falling is offered a high office . Very often the current ministers are asked to dance to show their skills . For instance, Flimnap, the treasurer, is required to dance on a tight rope to show his superiority to others in this respect.

    "This jumping game may sound innocent to the children, however, politically its significance is far from innocent. Obviously, Swift makes a satire on the way in which political offices were distributed among the candidates by George I. Flimnap stands for Sir Robert Walpole the prime minister of England. Dancing on a tight rope symbolizes Walpole's skill in parliamentary tactics and political intrigues.

    The creation story, for example, is nothing like that. What do the six days of creation stand for? That which really happened over billions of years due to natural forces? What does a day of rest stand for? What does Adam's rib stand for? Nothing, This is not an allegory. It's an early and erroneous attempt to explain what we see around us, nothing more. It's a wrong guess to questions about how the sun, stars, earth, and life got here.

    I'm sure you would agree that there is a difference between an allegory and a wrong guess, the features of each being distinctly different from one another. We wouldn't accept somebody giving testimony and telling a made up story under oath (perjury in that setting) then claim that iit was allegory for really happened. No, it's just a wrong account of events.

    If one accepts that the deity is mythical, all of the problems with the Bible disappear - along with the Bible.

    If your morality comes from your Bible, you're way behind. Moral theory has advance over the centuries, much of it in contradiction to all of that submission stuff. Authoritarian models have been replaced by democracies. Slavery was condemned as barbaric and cruel. Women have rights such as voting and owning property. That's what's replacing biblical ethics.
     
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  10. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Way worse than just "behind".
    If they had their way, I expect I'd
    be hanging from a lamp post before long.
    Because I am not going to obey.

    Marry the man who assaulted me?
    I would kill him, or he'd have to kill me,
    no way I would submit.

    That guy who was asking who will follow him
    in reestablishing Abrahamic Law? i said I would not
    follow HIM, even if i were dead.

    I mean, some of it is ok, but, not that this is the worst of it
    but I am supposed to be "unclean" when I have my period?
    And contact with me must be sanitized via ceremony?

    Obey such ill conceived and pernicious laws? Never.
     
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  11. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    That does not explain why there are hundreds of Christian denominations.
     
  12. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    I like the way you wrote this. :)

    I might not understand what you meant though.

    Are you saying that i claim that God contradicts himself but science also contradicts itself?
     
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  13. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Wouldnt his bible quote actually be a good explanation why there are many denomination? Wouldnt it explain the methodology they use that causes such division?
     
  14. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    The real problem you have (that any theist has) is that in many cases you have absolutely no metric by which to discern who is interpreting correctly and who is not. All you have is the text, and if one person interprets it one way, and the other another way, then going back to the text isn't getting you anywhere... and there is literally nowhere else to turn. What are you going to do? Pray? That's a laugh.
     
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  15. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Please demonstrate to us that God gives anyone anything.
     
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  16. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    Is that true of all scriptures or of some?

    I'm pretty sure the skeptics here know what this scripture means, "He will take vengeance in flaming fire on all those who disbelieve the saving gospel of Jesus", after all, they LOVE to talk about Hell far more than we Christians do!
     
  17. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    He himself said that the natural man does not receive the things of the spirit of God. Since he seems to believe that he has knowledge the others do not have, then he must be more than a natural man.
     
  18. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Whether you implicate it or not, it is obviously true
    and nobody will really-really know what those old books
    meant when they were written. Still less if any* of it
    happens to be true.

    *yeah, yeah, I know there is a place called Egypt
     
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  19. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Really? For anyone making such ridiculous claims
    and believing them, I'd say must be less-than.
     
  20. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Now that is just mean. :D
     
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