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Featured Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 74x12, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    It was copied from the members own profile, how good was the member to me, they posted a rebuttable from me :D;)

    Hope all is good for you Deeje, they were horrific times down there.

    Regards Tony
     
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  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Thanks Tony, its been a rough trot, but we are getting some much needed drizzly rain here at the moment. Its not heavy enough to put out the fires, but welcome none the less. I can hear the parched lawns and gardens drinking it in. It will help with the regrowth of the forests decimated by the fires and help the surviving animals to gain their food back. Lots of people are leaving food and water out for the roos and wombats. Possums too. I just hope the impact on the bees and other insects is fixable. So many creatures lost....the koalas have been hit hard and they were struggling to begin with. I just hope all the money raised will go to where its needed. :(
     
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  3. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    I am not about to get into a battle of wits with you.
    You are unarmed.
    Thus the victory would be hollow and meaningless.
    Now if at some later date you are able to understand what is being said to you and want to try again...
     
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  4. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Emphasis mine..

    Here is a prime example.
    You are arguing against your own provided definition...
     
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  5. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Next you will argue that not collecting stamps is a hobby?
     
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  6. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Actually, it is my signature.

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."
    ~ Bertrand Russell​

    And your use only stroked your own ego, since you replied with it instead of addressing the point.
     
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  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Ok so you believe that there is no God and you have no evidence that there is no God. How is that rational?

    Your not withholding your belief. You believe that there is no God and you have no evidence for your belief which means your faith is that you believe there is no God.

    Someone can say that there is 56 gumballs in a gumball machine without evidence then is it faith just the same as someone that does not believe there is 56 gumballs in the machine who does not have evidence that there is not 56 gumballs. Faith is something you have when you do not have evidence.

    You have not pointed anything out as you have no evidence for your faith which is you do not believe that there is a God. :)
     
  8. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    No entomology has never been my hobby. Some people believe in God and some people do not believe that there is a God. Evidence swings each way to prove a belief. Do you have evidence that there is no God? If you do not than you only believe what you do by faith.
     
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Your response..
    ZZz Sorry did you say something? :)
     
  10. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    3rdAngel said: Well that is not true. I already posted the Oxford Dictionaries definition that atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. It seems you do not know what faith is.
    Your response...
    Disbelief, lack of belief, nonbelief means not to believe. In the case of atheism, in the existence of God. If you have no evidence for your belief then your belief is based on faith :)
     
    #230 3rdAngel, Jan 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  11. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Here is a timeline of failed predictions:

    Predictions (by date of publication) include:

    • 1877: Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914; the Jews, as a people, would be restored to God's favor; the "saints" would be carried to heaven.[28]
    • 1891: 1914 would be "the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men."[29]
    • 1904: "World-wide anarchy" would follow the end of the Gentile Times in 1914.[30]
    • 1916: World War I would terminate in Armageddon and the rapture of the "saints".[31]
    • 1917: In 1918, Christendom would go down as a system to oblivion and be succeeded by revolutionary governments. God would "destroy the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions." Church members would "perish by the sword of war, revolution and anarchy." The dead would lie unburied. In 1920 all earthly governments would disappear, with worldwide anarchy prevailing.[32]
    • 1920: Messiah's kingdom would be established in 1925 and bring worldwide peace. God would begin restoring the earth. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful patriarchs would be resurrected to perfect human life and be made princes and rulers, the visible representatives of the New Order on earth. Those who showed themselves obedient to God would never die.[33]
    • 1922: The anti-typical "jubilee" that would mark God's intervention in earthly affairs would take place "probably the fall" of 1925.[34]
    • 1925: God's restoration of Earth would begin "shortly after" October 1, 1925. Jerusalem would be made the world's capital. Resurrected "princes" such as Abel, Noah, Moses and John the Baptist would give instructions to their subjects around the world by radio, and airplanes would transport people to and from Jerusalem from all parts of the globe in just "a few hours".[35]
    • 1938: Armageddon was too close for marriage or child bearing.[36]
    • 1941: There were only "months" remaining until Armageddon.[37]
    • 1942: Armageddon was "immediately before us."[38]
    • 1961: Awake! magazine stated that Armageddon "will come in the twentieth century. ... This generation will see its fulfillment."[39]
    • 1966: It would be 6000 years since man's creation in the fall of 1975 and it would be "appropriate" for Christ's thousand-year reign to begin at that time.[40] Time was "running out, no question about that."[41] The "immediate future" was "certain to be filled with climactic events ... within a few years at most", the final parts of Bible prophecy relating to the "last days" would undergo fulfillment as Christ's reign began.
    • 1967: The end-time period (beginning in 1914) was claimed to be so far advanced that the time remaining could "be compared, not just to the last day of a week, but rather, to the last part of that day".[42]
    • 1968: No one could say "with certainty" that the battle of Armageddon would begin in 1975, but time was "running out rapidly" with "earthshaking events" soon to take place.[43] In March 1968 there was a "short period of time left", with "only about ninety months left before 6000 years of man's existence on earth is completed".[44]
    • 1969: The existing world order would not last long enough for young people to grow old; the world system would end "in a few years." Young Witnesses were told not to bother pursuing tertiary education for this reason.[45]
    • 1971: The "battle in the day of Jehovah" was described as beginning "Shortly, within our twentieth century".[46]
      [*]1974: There was just a "short time remaining before the wicked world's end" and Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service."[47]
      [*]1984: There were "many indications" that "the end" was closer than the end of the 20th century.[48]
      [*]1989: The Watchtower asserted that Christian missionary work begun in the first century would "be completed in our 20th century".[49] When the magazine was republished in bound volumes, the phrase "in our 20th century" was replaced with the less specific "in our day".

      Criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses - Wikipedia

    • Its sobering reading. So when I hear what a dark place the world is and the end will come soon, I am sceptical. You should be too. Doomsday prophecy has been going on for a long time. It appeals to people with a certain psychology. The world as we know it is about the end. We are the special ones, the last hope and refugee for humanity. Everyone else is under the influence of Satan. That narrative preys on people’s fears and anxieties about the future. But its what gives your life meaning and hope.

    • I grew up Christian too. I like Christians as with peoples of all faiths. Baha’is are encouraged to associate with peoples of all faiths in a spirit of love and fellowship, wholly for the sake of God, not so we can convert them.

      There are certainly more JWs in both Australia and New Zealand than Baha’is, not that numbers are so important. According to the last census in Australia there are approximately 82 thousand JWs and 14 thousand Baha’is. So you outnumber us about 6:1. Our numbers are growing from about 9 thousand in 1996 to 14 thousand in 2016.

      Worldwide the numbers are not so different between our faiths as we are well established in every culture including Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist.

      It appears to me the Baha’i presence on this forum is not too dissimilar to the JWs. We do not shun and cast others out. We tolerate diversity and differences. The Teachings of our faith are very clear and there are no schism amongst the Baha’is as there are in Christianity.
     
    #231 adrian009, Jan 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  12. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Baha’is don’t believe in Satan as you know but its one dark narrative when its phrased this way. Baha’is don’t become involved in partisan politics. We are free to vote in elections but not run for a political posts and avoid criticism of government. Instead we are exhorted to obey the laws of the land.

    The Bible doesn’t but if you believe there was a world wide flood a few thousand years back around the time of Noah then that contradicts science.

    Jesus professed Himself to be a Prophet as did Muhammad, the Bab and Bahá’u’lláh. They all had the authority from God to make the claims they did.

    There we go again with this dark view of humanity being selfish and greedy. Do some research and you will find people are living much longer than they used, there is less poverty and better levels of education and health throughout the world. Try dealing with actual facts rather than negative rhetoric about the human condition.

    One challenge for humanity where we really need to cooperate is global warming. Its within our grasp to do something and there will be less extremes of weather and less bushfires.

    Pleased to hear your only partially anti-Semitic.

    No its not becoming darker by the day.

    I guess you’ve completely ignored everything I said about the positive changes in the world in my last post and how that is due to the contributions of millions, not just a few. It doesn’t matter whether they are Baha’is or not.

    From where I’m standing your going to be waiting a very long time for Christ to come.

    The world has changed dramatically over the last 150 years and will continue to do so.

    The Christian Church was exactly what Jesus intended as it was established under the guidance of His apostles.

    Jesus didn’t teach abolition of slavery, democracy or the equality of men and women.

    I’m not trying to convince you to become a Baha’i.

    Seriously. So let’s get this straight. You don’t believe in the core tenants of Christianity!?

    1/ Was Jesus the Son of God?
    2/ How about the Divinity of Jesus?
    3/ Was Jesus born to the Virgin Mary?
    4/ Did Jesus appoint Peter as His successor?
    5/ Do you believe in the Divine origins of Christianity?
    6/ How about the Divine inspiration of the New Testament?
     
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  13. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    I agree.
    And no matter how much you jump up and down screaming otherwise,
    I do not believe that god does not exist.
    I ALSO do not believe that god exists.

    Thus I have no belief either way.
    Thus no faith involved.
     
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  14. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Your response...
    Your post is simply a distraction in order to avoid what you are quoting from and does not answer the post you are responding to.
     
  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    I am not jumping up and down screaming about anything only showing why your earlier claims also apply to you. If you do not believe God exists and you cannot prove it then your belief is based on faith. You are free to believe as you wish even if you do not have any evidence for your belief :)
     
  16. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    You sure you want to make this claim?

    By that, you are irrational for refusing to believe
    in unicorns and mermaids.
     
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  17. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    It is somewhat hard to believe that you feel this to be an adequate demonstration of something that God has done, or is doing. You have absolutely no way to tie my breathing or the mechanisms behind my breathing to God. None. The only thing you have is "because The Bible told me so" or "my religious leaders told me so." That's it. And it's just not good enough.
     
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  18. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    It is not much of a connection, for sure.

    But, it has a fine if unintended meaning.
    It is good compact demonstration of how little
    actual thought goes into forming some people's
    beliefs.
     
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  19. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Dubious.
     
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  20. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Please quit insulting me and calling me ugly names: here you literally call me a liar.

    Worse-- you appear to have Magical Telepathy, in that you think YOU KNOW what I believe or do not believe!

    That's INCREDIBLE! Why don't you take your TELEPATHY on the ROAD and make MILLIONS?

    No? You do not have telepathy? You do NOT KNOW what I do or do not believe after all?

    Yeah... I have no faith either way-- I wait for God to Speak. I expect God to Speak GODLY-- and never need to use insults like YOU.

    Thanks! You confirm my observation that YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF ANY SORT: OR INSTEAD OF INSULTING, YOU WOULD USE EVIDENCE, INSTEAD.


    False: Do babies have faith? Of course not! Do kittens or puppies have faith? OF COURSE NOT.

    THE DEFAULT IS NOT HAVING FAITH UNTIL SOMEONE STARTS TELLING LIES.


    The above is puerile NONSENSE. You may well have said, "Goo! Gaha! Goo-goo---GAHH... gek? GOOO! "

    YOU. YOU ARE 100% CERTAIN EVIDENCE. No god worthy of the name would suffer YOU to represent it's interests.

    The bible is quite clear: It's god quickly murders any and all who DARE to speak for it, without permission.

    You are still here.... obviously. Therefore? Your god isn't. Game. Set. Match
     
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