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Featured Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 74x12, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    That is a good way to describe it! I’ve got to remember that.
     
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  2. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    To some, maybe not.

    To me there is no greater Truth, all the rest is a temporary illusion.

    Regards Tony
     
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  3. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    It is plain to see Charles Taze was no Prophet and you have no Prophets in your Church. Regardless, the problem is your organisations makes predictions about the future that don't eventuate so there is no reason to believe your branch of Christendom over other branches. In fact being consistently wrong provides reason enough to follow a branch of Christianity that has the good sense not to make predictions at all let alone those that don't come to pass.

    It is true JWs are poorly regarded amongst Christians as a whole. Just because others think you are wrong doesn't mean you are right. Sometimes people think others are wrong because they clearly are wrong.

    The more I become familiar with the beliefs of the JWs the less impressed I become.

    1/ It is an organisation you seem to view every other organisation as under the domain of Satan whether religious or political.

    2/ Basic science seems to be discarded so your literal biblical interpretations can be accommodated.

    3/ The JW beliefs about an impending apocalypse based on literal interpretation of the book of revelation are extremely implausible.

    4/ The overall result is the JWs become disengaged with the actual work God requires of us to make the world a better place. Instead I hear JWs complaining about how bad the world is and an unwillingness to take positive action to make things better because of the impending apocalypse.

    With the passing of two thousand years and the persecution of Jews leading to the extermination of millions of Jews, the time to move on from blaming the Jews and rehashing the same old stuff is long past.

    Jesus also criticised the people of His day for not being able to read the signs of the times (Matthew 16:3). You have this extremely dim and dark view of the world.

    In regards the future, both our faiths believe that peace will be established on earth. We have very different visions about how that will come about as well as our role as individuals and what our respective faith communities have to offer.

    For Baha'is world peace is not only possible but inevitable. Whether it comes about through cooperation or unimaginable horrors is a choice before humanity. We are part of humanity so our attitudes and actions can contribute towards peace or retard its progress.

    I presented to you before a list of positive social changes since the nineteenth century that are essential to a peaceful world.

    1/ All peoples are increasingly seen as equal regardless of race, ethnicity, nationality or religious affiliation.

    2/ Universal education has been progressively implemented throughout the globe.

    3/ The equality of men and women has been firmly established at most levels of society.

    4/ There are unprecedented levels of international cooperation and agencies for socioeconomic development.

    5/ Democratic institutions have become the preferred model of government at a local and national level.

    6/ Slavery has largely been abolished.

    These are all Teachings of the Baha'i Faith. Of course its everyone that's on board to some extent. The Baha'i Faith is a relatively small community of about 5 - 10 million worldwide.

    What are the consequences for the world?

    1/ The amount of deaths due to international conflict has dramatically decreased in the twenty-first century.

    2/ People are living longer and are more prosperous.

    3/ Levels of education have increased greatly.

    There are many problems in the world of course, but on the whole humanity appears to be heading in the right direction. So perhaps you should better heed the Words of Jesus and consider the signs more attentively.

    The Baha'i Faith is an independent religion. It is neither a sect nor denomination of Christianity or Islam. Although Christianity emerged from Judaism, Christ established an independent religion independent from Judaism. In a similar manner, although the Baha'i faith emerged from Islam, our founder Baha'u'llah established an independent religion.

    Baha'u'llah brought New Teachings that are suited for the modern age. Judaism is 3,500 years old, Christianity 2,000 years and Islam 1,400. Many of the Teachings revealed in these Faiths are no longer suited to the current age.

    Baha'is believe God progressively Reveals Himself. Judaism is based on the Teachings of Noah and Abraham. Christianity is based on Judaism. Islam is based on Judaism and Christianity. The Baha'i Faith is based on Judaism, Christianity and Islam. However like its predecessors, Baha'u'llah brought a new Revelation.

    Manifestations of God | What Bahá’ís Believe

    I'm not asking you to believe in the Baha'i Faith, simply explaining it to you. You have made criticisms of the Baha'i Faith. They are easily refuted. You claim we are all things to all people. We are an independent religion based on the Teachings of Baha'u'llah.

    You claim we are at odds with Christianity. That is not true. In regards the Baha'i Faith's position regarding Christianity:

    As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended.

    Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promised Day Is Come, Pages 108-113
     
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  4. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    It is possible to prove that faith is worthless, at finding the truth about *anything*.

    Because faith is, by definition, belief in things for which you have no evidence.

    If you had evidence, you wouldn't need faith...
     
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  5. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    You can't demonstrate why it's "warped." At best all you can do is claim that my stating that Jesus said one thing but Paul said another isn't valid because, although the words used are different and say different things, they mean the same thing. I'm not the one inserting things to fill the gaps to make ends meet, like stretching "lord not of the dead but of the living" to mean "lord of the living and dead."
     
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  6. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Atheism fits into this category then. Some who follow it have faith that there is no God yet they have no evidence that God does not exist. Therefore atheism is the religion of many who do not believe in God.
     
    #186 3rdAngel, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Very few atheists have faith that there is no God.
     
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  8. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    Many have tried that path, to prove Faith is worthless.

    I ask where are they?

    We can easily recognise all the Faiths that they tried to say were worthless and note all the good they have done and all the knowledge they have inspired.

    Yet the people that said they are worthless are but dust, gone and forgotten.

    Regards Tony
     
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  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    If atheists do not have evidence that there is no God then to believe in atheism you have to have faith. Atheism is the disbelief in the existence of God or gods. To be an athiest you need to have faith because there is no evidence that there is no God. This is the religion of many who do not believe in God.
     
  10. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    If counting the hits and ignoring the misses works for you, by all means, run with it.
     
  11. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Except that atheism is merely the lack of belief in god(s)
    The belief there is no god is not a defining factor for atheism regardless of how many atheists believe there is no god(s)
     
  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Sure it is. As an atheist, if there is no evidence that there is no God then you need faith to believe there is no God. The definition of athiesm is disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. Either way you still need faith if you have no evidence for what you believe.
     
  13. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    You recognise this? I see it is your reply.

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."

    All the best Regards Tony
     
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  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    No, you do not know what atheism is. Atheism is merely a lack of belief in a god. One does not need evidence for that. A lack of belief is not the same as believing that something does not exist.

    Your definition of atheism is incorrect. It is a strawman of atheism.
     
  15. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    As an atheist, I lack a god belief.
    No faith required.
    Why, because it is not a belief.

    Since I do not actively belief that god does not exist, Still no faith required.
    Your inability to understand that is a you problem.
     
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  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    His description sadly is correct for many theists. I won't say it aptly describes your faith since I do not know what you believe well enough, but there are some theists here that fit that description to a tee.
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    i doubt if he will let himself understand. But hope rises eternally.
     
  18. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    That does not describe me.

    YOU say, "God exists" *I* say, "I do not believe you."

    YOU say, "You have to have faith." *I* say, yes... that is why I do not believe you.

    The DEFAULT state is: No god. Until (if ever) theists prove otherwise? "no god" remains.

    What do you have that is evidence OF god? No? Nothing?

    The category remains empty. No faith needed in the slightest.
     
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  19. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    I am one. They are called "atheists".

    Done IN SPITE OF said religion. Never because of it...
     
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  20. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Nobody believes in atheism, silly! It's not a belief.

    All we ask? Is for you to show WHY you believe there is a god.

    So far? You dodge these questions-- you fail to convince us.

    If God were Real? It would be Godly Convincing, right?

    Hmmm.... it appears God's #1 Attribute: Is to Hide from Rational Inquiry.
     
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