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Featured Understanding John 1:1

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by filthyrottendirty, Mar 16, 2021.

  1. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    As can the Son who returned to earth in a new form after his body was killed. He came and went on his own, appeared and vanished in looked rooms. Returned to heaven when he was finished on earth. He can because he is a divine being like he was before he come down to earth. That people don't believe in his preexistent divinity has no beaning on the truth about the Son of God.
     
  2. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    That's a very interesting prayer recorded there in John 17. It came just before he was arrested and taken to face the councils and be scourged.

    When this same thing was to happen to Jesus' disciples he said to them,

    Mat 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
    Mat 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
    Mat 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
    Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

    I'm wondering if it was the spirit of the Father speaking through Jesus. When the spirit was given to Jesus it/he had not the same glory as it/he does with the Father. The spirit's glory was veiled by the mortal flesh. But as we saw in the transfiguration, Jesus body takes on a glory that is compared to the Father.
     
  3. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    You don't realise, that no Angel, none of the cherubim or Seraphim has actually seen GOD as HE is; meaning in HIS capital size. GOD is the rarest eyes can see. Only Father Adam has.

    Who the Angels beheld the image of, is Adam who was made in the image and after the likeness of GOD.

    GOD does not reside in any heavens world with HIS creatures; HE is above that kind of livelihood.
     
    #23 Yahcubs777, Mar 16, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2021
  4. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    He that has seen me, has seen the father.
    I and my father are one
    I proceeded from the father.
    I go back to the father and I will send you the comforter
    I am the resurrection and the life.
    HE is the express image of the invisible GOD. If I do not go, he will not come.
    The Most Holy Spirit helps you to pray; which means GOD prays to HIMSELF.
    Before Abraham I AM.
    The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld him as one with the glory of the father.

    I could go on...
     
  5. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because the spirit of the Son, "the spirit of truth", was pored out upon all flesh after he returned to heaven just as he said he would send it. Its that spirit that guided the apostles.
     
  6. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Who included it in and who decided this is authentic is the issue to consider. People can build a lot of meanings on top of one another.
     
  7. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Then who is Revelation 10:7 speaking about? What about acts 3:19-23? Malachi 4:4-6? Revelation 18:4?
     
  8. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    Well... I have read what you wrote - and I have read similar explanations before.

    - "Many scholars" really isn't a good way of saying things. Many scholars also believe it is simply God's word but also believe that Jesus is the manifestation of The Word incarnate.

    Rather than simply answering, I gave sites, commentaries et al that simply don't agree with your interpretation

    Additionally the NWT was translated by the following people:

    Screen Shot 2021-03-16 at 1.29.05 PM.png

    So, I'm not sure which scholars we are actually talking about.
     
  9. filthyrottendirty

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    What is your religion? What are your beliefs?
     
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  10. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    Various prophets.

    Jesus spoke of the spirit that he would send. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
     
  11. filthyrottendirty

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    Where does it say "coexisting and coeternal"?

    The Bible also says Jesus is the firstborn of all creation, Gods only begotten son but you ignore that.
     
  12. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    That’s Greek to me :(

    ciao

    - viole
     
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  13. wellwisher

    wellwisher Well-Known Member

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    I took a different approach to this, base on my goal of unifying science and religion. The six thousand year estimate of the biblical age of the universe, has the same timing as the invention of written language. The former is dated by science. This is not a coincidence. This parallel would imply that the invention of written language altered the human psyche in a profound way. A new type of human appears.

    Picture going to college or high school, at a time when there was no written language. There is no teacher notes on the overhead, no note taking, no books to study, and no tests to take. Everything has to be done by the word of mouth and listening. This is not easy.

    The problem that will occur is not everyone will remember the same things the same way. Those who are better at remembering, may not remember everything said. In our study groups, agreement on many things may come down to who yells the louder, as to who is right. Even with reading, notes, and studying, we forget most of what are learn after a few months. The net result is the lessons learned, without writing, will fade away, due to no good way to duplicate the original, and then be able to refresh the fading memory, with anything that is reliability.

    Science has shown that civilization had a few starts-up before the first stable civilization formed. All these start-ups were aborted. Without writing, after the creative leaders who knew how to do things, died, the lessons faded and their start up civilization started to regress back to natural.

    Once writing was invented, everything changed, since even those with the worse memory had things carved in stone, to teach them and help them remember, compare and refresh. The word God was the first word of this new revolutionary invention. Books were power and they were spirit; alive.

    Once people had this unnatural or manmade way to learn, remember and refresh memory, this would have caused repression of instinct. The natural loss of previous memory helps to refresh instincts. One went from fads and rituals, back to real time interaction with the environment.

    Once people had a way to counter this natural inertia, via the invention, repression appears. Books were a mixed blessing, since an old book that is obsolete, but force fed to all, can be repressive. This age is when the human ego starts to evolve quickly; secondary center of consciousness. The unconscious mind would also become very active due to the repression; dreams, impulses and visions. The tree of life; instinct became sealed, as humans substituted fixed written knowledge, carved into stone, for instinct.

    The bible is about the evolution of human consciousness, from natural in paradise, then into civilization, as the operating system of the human brain was culturally evolved/regressed. Not all paths were free of bugs, with the bible and other religious books, like ancient coding manuals, for the natural human brain's operating system.

    For example, Greek mythology evolves from the Titans to the Olympians. The Titans were scary and wild and not very humanoid. This was the early repressed human. The change to the Olympians showed a change in the operating system from the savage impulsive animal-beast-man, to one who was more refined and human; Windows 95 to Windows 98.

    Noah's Ark appears to symbolize another update, where the unconscious mind over whelmed the collective human ego; collective loss of soul. The flood was part of an un-install process. Two animals male and female symbolized male and female instinct being saved in the update.

    There were other updates. The bible predicts another major update in Revelation. The un-install process is not pretty. Faith is needed to hit the right thought command lines when requested.
     
  14. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    I don't ignore it, i know why it was said; did HE say it?
     
  15. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Yet you think this is the Most Holy Spirit of GOD. Why would GOD need to hear from HIMSELF to teach the people?
     
  16. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    No, the Son who is also God, is a spiritual presence since ascending into heaven.
     
  17. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    The Son of GOD is not GOD. Jesus HIs Pre-Eminence is GOD.

    The verse you posted says: And he will speak only what he hears... This is talking about a Prophet.
     
  18. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with you, so do the apostles who realized his divinity after he returned from the death of his body.
     
  19. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    You can disagree with me, it doesn't change HIS true identity. And again I ask you, why would GOD need to hear from HIMSELF to teach the people?

    In fact apostle Peter agreed with me, in acts 3:19-23, talking about the Prophet that will restore all things.

    Also John the beloved agreed with me in revelation chapters.

    Also they never realised anything, HE was still teaching them saying: touch me, a ghost has not physical body like you see me have
     
  20. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    Because God the Father has divine sons. They are All God to us. God the Son returned to God the Father and sent his spirit as he promised. The Father and Son are 2 distinct beings.


    John 14:15-31
    New International Version

    Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
    15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father,and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
     
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