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Understanding Cosmology (Post 1)

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
This is actually the Doppler effect ". . . . " Earth's motion through space causes a "hot" region (that we're moving towards) and a "cool" region (that we're moving away from) with respect to the entire CMB.
OK, I think this measurement requires an explanation of how the Hubble Telescope measured this - and how the data analysts handled and filtered the incoming data - but never mind.
I try not to talk authoritatively about stuff that I only have a general understanding of. Sometimes I probably do know enough, and it may just be imposter syndrome :screamcat:
Which is a very sound approach in general :) And AFTERWARDS you better can analyse the logics of it all - or the lack of logics.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
OK, I think this measurement requires an explanation of how the Hubble Telescope measured this - and how the data analysts handled and filtered the incoming data - but never mind.

This was done by COBE first, then WMAP, then Planck. The specs for their instrumentation can easily be found.

The CMB is detected first, which gives a gross image of it. It can then be smoothed, which gives the image of the dipole (it's smoothed on the scale of mK if I remember correctly). Smoothed again to remove the dipole, the underlying anisotropies are revealed.

Spherical harmonics can be used to plot the multipole moment which gives the baryon acoustic oscillation curves, which are very sensitive by the way to various cosmological parameters (it's a good way to test theory in other words because it would immediately rule out incorrect theories, which it did; a large number of them).
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
OK, I think this measurement requires an explanation of how the Hubble Telescope measured this - and how the data analysts handled and filtered the incoming data - but never mind.

Addendum to my above post, here's a good visualization:
[GALLERY=media, 9507]Cobewmapcmb by Meow Mix posted Jun 25, 2021 at 4:38 AM[/GALLERY]

Edit: The thingy in the middle is our stupid own galaxy getting in the way, BTW.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
This was done by COBE first, then WMAP, then Planck.
I know.
The CMB is detected first, which gives a gross image of it. It can then be smoothed, which gives the image of the dipole (it's smoothed on the scale of mK if I remember correctly). Smoothed again to remove the dipole, the underlying anisotropies are revealed.
Are you aware of the CMB data critiques, Pierre Marie Robitaille? If not take a look at these videos and give your reply.




What if the scientists have filtered away all data informations which didn´t compute with their theories?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
It's a joke. And a common one.
Understood. But it works because that is often how physicists define the concept.

For example, I found a quote in a source years ago that referred to tensors using the old adage "if it quacks like a duck..." and took the time to look it up (wasn't difficult). The paper cited one of Anthony Zee's in a Nutshell books, Einstein Gravity in a Nutshell, where I found (before the duck bit) the following:


In practice, what one is more concerned with is whether or not the physical systems or properties thereof satisfy the requisite transformation properties. Indeed, it is this requirement that provided and continues to provide a central role in the formulations of modern physics from the use of e.g., the so-called Christoffel symbols in general relativity to the covariant derivative in gauge field theory. And yes, physicists tend to be quite careless in their usage of terms and notations, especially compared to e.g., geometers or similar specialists in mathematical fields that are heavily used in physics. But being careful about tensor fields is less problematic than e.g., the use of the Dirac notation in quantum mechanics or the fact that vectors (like tensors) are elements of a set with additional structure and by definition are elements of the corresponding spaces that result from taking these sets and equipping them with the requisite structure.
A "Coordinate chart" is just a chart, and charts are already well-defined objects that physicists have a tendency to conflate with (or see as a prime example of) coordinate systems rather than maps. The lectures by Frederic Schuller are useful here for the would-be physicist as he exercises rather more care than is typical even of mathematical physicists:
Lectures on the Geometric Anatomy of Theoretical Physics
The WE-Heraeus International Winter School on Gravity and Light Central Lecture Course
Apart from this, specifying that tensors are multilinear maps misses most of what is important, especially to the non-specialist, as apart from anything else it fails to distinguish tensors from e.g., determinants or any number of multilinear maps, including those that are special (but important) instances of tensors such as differential forms.

But forms *are* tensors. They are, specifically, completely anti-symmetric tensors. And determinants are a type of form. Differential forms are actually tensor *fields* and only make sense on a manifold.

Personally, I would find the characterization of tensors as objects that "eat" elements of vector spaces and their duals more informative than your definition, which is inadequate to characterize tensors in any case and is uninformative more generally.
Except that the tensors that take vectors and dual vectors are, again, just a special type of tensor.

And it is common to have tensors that are not just of that form. For example, when dealing with more than one particle in QM, it is common to look at tensors where the vectors 'eaten' are from different vector spaces.

But I do like the more algebraic take of your definition, as I've found students (and even colleagues) often tend to fail to grasp the more algebraic aspects of tensors due to the manner in which they use and/or happen upon them in their work (e.g., specifically the differential geometry of relativistic gravitational physics, in which one finds a far more horrific abuse of terminology and notation as well as conceptual confusions in the ways in which "differentials" are used to characterize tensors and give a limited and generally misleading characterization of their nature).

Exactly. And, one of the problems is that the tangent vectors from coordinate charts are not the only possible (or useful) basis vectors. So limiting to chart transformations misses some important aspects of the tensor fields. In essence, the bases from coordinate charts always have the Lie product between different basis elements zero. That need not occur in general. Wald's book, for example, deals with such things, but requires some horrid notational acrobatics to do so. That should not be necessary with a proper understanding of tensors.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
4 in the many worlds interpretation of QM, what happens if an event (say the decay of an atom) has a probability of 10%, would that imply that 10 new universes branched, where in one universe the particle decayed and in the other 9 universes the particle didn’t?

It's been a while since I read Everett's paper or a follow up, but as I recall, there is a 'split' for each possible outcome.

So, in your scenario, if there are two possible outcomes (decay, no decay), the universe would split into two, with 90% 'going one way' and 10% 'going the other'.

The answer is more clear when it is a single event as opposed to a continuous sequence (like the decay you mention).
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
So, in your scenario, if there are two possible outcomes (decay, no decay), the universe would split into two, with 90% 'going one way' and 10% 'going the other'.

.
That is confusing, if the universe will split in two, how can you have 10% decay and 90% no decay?

In any case the actual question that I whant to ask is, what if the probability is an irrational number (say the square root of 2 divided by 3) seems like a paradox to me, because you will never get a “balanced” number of universes.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
That is confusing, if the universe will split in two, how can you have 10% decay and 90% no decay?

In any case the actual question that I whant to ask is, what if the probability is an irrational number (say the square root of 2 divided by 3) seems like a paradox to me, because you will never get a “balanced” number of universes.

Think of it like this. The universe at one point is developing. At the time of a quantum event, it splits with a 10% probability of developing one direction and a 90% probability of developing in another. For an irrational probability, it holds the same way: there are just two universes after, but the change of going to either is that irrational probability.
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
Think of it like this. The universe at one point is developing. At the time of a quantum event, it splits with a 10% probability of developing one direction and a 90% probability of developing in another. For an irrational probability, it holds the same way: there are just two universes after, but the change of going to either is that irrational probability.
Ok so the universe always splits in two when there are only 2 possibilities?
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But forms *are* tensors. They are, specifically, completely anti-symmetric tensors. And determinants are a type of form. Differential forms are actually tensor *fields* and only make sense on a manifold.
Determinants are not just a type of form (though differential forms and determinants have clear, obvious, and important similarities from the antisymmetry to the manner in which forms allow for integration over oriented manifolds) nor are determinants generally speaking tensors or tensor fields. In point of fact, even the mathematician's language gets confusing here as e.g., not all Cartesian tensors are in fact tensors (I forget the source, but in some work on applied mathematics or other the author introduced novel terminology for Cartesian tensors for which he apologized but pointed out that the reason was due to the fact that talking about tensors in general with Cartesian tensors specifically creates a misleading conception due to the fact that the logic between the two is the opposite that it seems; as I recall, the author made the comparison that talking about Cartesian tensors in relation to tensors in general was like asserting that "all trees are maple trees, but not all maple trees are trees). Indeed, even referring to an object as a tensor is often a shorthand conflating two (or more!) conceptually and formally different things, as e.g., the components of tensors vs. the abstract element of a set.


Except that the tensors that take vectors and dual vectors are, again, just a special type of tensor.
Yes. And the formal definition of a vector is that it is an element of a vector space. This is not a particularly helpful definition, even if one is given the necessary axioms to define a vector space, at least at a first pass. Likewise, even the more formal definitions for tensors often involved defining tensors in terms of tensor product spaces or some similar "defining X as something that is X-like." As it is more useful in the case of tensors to immediately question whether an object indeed transforms like a tensor, not to mention more useful to build up the notion in terms of known structures such as vectors and forms, I prefer both (at least from an introductory perspective) and acknowledge that both physicists and mathematicians differ with respect to how they think it best to define such objects (I got into a lengthy argument/debate once with a mathematician over his conflation of points in R^n and vectors arguing that e.g., it makes no sense to speak of adding two points as this is a relation/operation one applies to vectors not points, and his general response was that such distinctions were unimportant in most contexts).

And it is common to have tensors that are not just of that form. For example, when dealing with more than one particle in QM, it is common to look at tensors where the vectors 'eaten' are from different vector spaces.
Many-body QM and relativistic QM deal with Fock spaces, true, but in general quantum systems even in the case of single-particle QM cannot be defined uniquely in terms of vectors but correspond more generally to rays due to the difficulties with the phase. But this is a good example for another reason: in both physics and mathematics it is common to refer to bases as you did without specifying whether one means e.g., a Hamel or Schauder basis. In finite-dimensional vector spaces, there is no use for such a distinction nor is it necessary to make it. In quantum mechanics, where one is often dealing systems that require a description that may actually need both countable and uncountable bases (or that are more generally just infinite, and therefore the distinction between countable and uncountable becomes relevant) this distinction is absolutely fundamental and is too often glossed over in treatments in the literature.

Exactly. And, one of the problems is that the tangent vectors from coordinate charts are not the only possible (or useful) basis vectors.
But you are already conflating or mixing up different objects that one often deals with at differing levels of abstraction and structures. Manifolds need not be equipped with a vector space structure and often aren't, and indeed charts in many cases describe topological manifolds that aren't differentiable and therefore in both cases one often can't refer to basis vectors without already introducing a level of structure (namely, that of a vector space) that will hold for tangent spaces but not for the charts or coordinate maps in general. All the while, a central component of the general manifold structure is being glossed here- the atlas (not to mention the bundles one requires to even refer to e.g., the local tangent bundles or TM more generally)

Wald's book, for example, deals with such things, but requires some horrid notational acrobatics to do so. That should not be necessary with a proper understanding of tensors.
Where exactly in Wald's book are you referring to?
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thanks for these!
No problem! But if you like these, then you may appreciate the following:
PSI Lectures
Most of my (living) heroes in physics are affiliated with, have made appearances at, or are members of the Perimeter institute (what the Sante Fe Institute is to to the study of complexity and complex systems is, in my view, what the the Perimeter institute is to foundation physics). In addition to the recordings of various seminars, talks, and so forth over the years on a variety of topics from some of the most notable names in physics and beyond, you can find the complete lecture series for course offerings. Some of the courses are no doubt too remedial, and some may be of little interest, but perusing these you will find a structured and entirely free resource containing lectures for students and researchers alike on everything from selected topics in mathematical physics to cosmology and beyond standard model physics, organized by category and topic for each year.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
No problem! But if you like these, then you may appreciate the following:
PSI Lectures
Most of my (living) heroes in physics are affiliated with, have made appearances at, or are members of the Perimeter institute (what the Sante Fe Institute is to to the study of complexity and complex systems is, in my view, what the the Perimeter institute is to foundation physics). In addition to the recordings of various seminars, talks, and so forth over the years on a variety of topics from some of the most notable names in physics and beyond, you can find the complete lecture series for course offerings. Some of the courses are no doubt too remedial, and some may be of little interest, but perusing these you will find a structured and entirely free resource containing lectures for students and researchers alike on everything from selected topics in mathematical physics to cosmology and beyond standard model physics, organized by category and topic for each year.

My original dream was to go to Perimeter. I wanted to meet/work with Fotini Markopoulou because of her category theory stuff, and Lee Smolin because of basically everything he does. I don't know how to do that now, I moved more towards astrophysics than pure foundation type cosmology. I would love it though. (*Cough*also imposter syndrome*cough*)
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Determinants are not just a type of form (though differential forms and determinants have clear, obvious, and important similarities from the antisymmetry to the manner in which forms allow for integration over oriented manifolds) nor are determinants generally speaking tensors or tensor fields.
The determinant map for a vector space of dimension n is a completely anti-symmetric tensor with n entries. As such, it is a form (not a differential form) and a tensor (and not a tensor field).

In point of fact, even the mathematician's language gets confusing here as e.g., not all Cartesian tensors are in fact tensors (I forget the source, but in some work on applied mathematics or other the author introduced novel terminology for Cartesian tensors for which he apologized but pointed out that the reason was due to the fact that talking about tensors in general with Cartesian tensors specifically creates a misleading conception due to the fact that the logic between the two is the opposite that it seems; as I recall, the author made the comparison that talking about Cartesian tensors in relation to tensors in general was like asserting that "all trees are maple trees, but not all maple trees are trees). Indeed, even referring to an object as a tensor is often a shorthand conflating two (or more!) conceptually and formally different things, as e.g., the components of tensors vs. the abstract element of a set.

Not what I am talking about.

Yes. And the formal definition of a vector is that it is an element of a vector space. This is not a particularly helpful definition, even if one is given the necessary axioms to define a vector space, at least at a first pass.
It is actually greatly simplifying, especially if you vector space is infinite dimensional, like a Hilbert space or a function space.

Likewise, even the more formal definitions for tensors often involved defining tensors in terms of tensor product spaces or some similar "defining X as something that is X-like." As it is more useful in the case of tensors to immediately question whether an object indeed transforms like a tensor, not to mention more useful to build up the notion in terms of known structures such as vectors and forms, I prefer both (at least from an introductory perspective) and acknowledge that both physicists and mathematicians differ with respect to how they think it best to define such objects (I got into a lengthy argument/debate once with a mathematician over his conflation of points in R^n and vectors arguing that e.g., it makes no sense to speak of adding two points as this is a relation/operation one applies to vectors not points, and his general response was that such distinctions were unimportant in most contexts).

To focus on the components is to miss the trees for the forest. The components depend on the basis used. The transformations you mention simply describe how those components change when the basis is changed. In cases where there is no natural basis, the description as a vector space is MUCH more natural. In fact, it is usually best to get away from components and focus on the vectors or tensors themselves. Then, choose a basis (or not) for computations.

Many-body QM and relativistic QM deal with Fock spaces, true, but in general quantum systems even in the case of single-particle QM cannot be defined uniquely in terms of vectors but correspond more generally to rays due to the difficulties with the phase. But this is a good example for another reason: in both physics and mathematics it is common to refer to bases as you did without specifying whether one means e.g., a Hamel or Schauder basis. In finite-dimensional vector spaces, there is no use for such a distinction nor is it necessary to make it. In quantum mechanics, where one is often dealing systems that require a description that may actually need both countable and uncountable bases (or that are more generally just infinite, and therefore the distinction between countable and uncountable becomes relevant) this distinction is absolutely fundamental and is too often glossed over in treatments in the literature.

Yet another reason to discuss vectors and tensors in a coordinate free manner. Then, when you choose your basis (of either sort), there is no confusion about the components. The vector doesn't transform; the components do.

Also, it is quite possible for an infinite dimensional space to not have a Schauder basis (even if it is a Banach space).

But you are already conflating or mixing up different objects that one often deals with at differing levels of abstraction and structures. Manifolds need not be equipped with a vector space structure and often aren't, and indeed charts in many cases describe topological manifolds that aren't differentiable and therefore in both cases one often can't refer to basis vectors without already introducing a level of structure (namely, that of a vector space) that will hold for tangent spaces but not for the charts or coordinate maps in general. All the while, a central component of the general manifold structure is being glossed here- the atlas (not to mention the bundles one requires to even refer to e.g., the local tangent bundles or TM more generally)

The charts are the elements of the atlas. The vector and tensors are elements of some vector bundle. The fields are sections of those vector bundles.

Given a chart (a coordinate chart; an element of the atlas), there are coordinate lines where only one coordinate changes. The tangent vectors to those lines are a natural basis at every point in the chart. Usually, a physicist works in one of the bases obtained in this way.

The transformation formulas physicists like come directly from how the *components* of vectors and tensors change when a chart is changed (and thereby the basis produced from the chart).

BUT, there are other vector fields that give bases at every point. And, occasionally, these bases are useful for calculation. For example, it is occasionally useful in relativity to have two of the basis vectors be null vectors. These will not come from any coordinate chart, but they can simplify things in some cases.


Where exactly in Wald's book are you referring to?
Section 3.4b. The use of tetrads (which are non-coordinate bases of the tangent space) leads to some absolutely horrid notational nightmares.

A tetrad is simply four orthonormal vectors are each point. No need for multiple subscripts and superscript. The components of vectors and tensors can easily be done in the tetrad basis: the transformations of coordinates are precisely the same as for any change of basis. BUT there are no derivatives because it isn't a change of coordinate chart.
 
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I prefer both (at least from an introductory perspective) and acknowledge that both physicists and mathematicians differ with respect to how they think it best to define such objects (I got into a lengthy argument/debate once with a mathematician over his conflation of points in R^n and vectors arguing that e.g., it makes no sense to speak of adding two points as this is a relation/operation one applies to vectors not points, and his general response was that such distinctions were unimportant in most contexts).

R^n is a topological vector space. If you focus on the topology, you don't need to add vectors and you get a differential manifold. If you focus on the vector space, you don't need to worry about continuity and manifold structure. But you can have both at the same time.

But, there is a point. The tangent bundle on R^n is actually R^n x R^n with the first factor the manifold and the second factor the vector space. Since the generalization to other manifolds is going to be important, it is probably a good idea to keep the distinction from the beginning.
 
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