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Understanding Chapter 1 of John

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by true blood, Jun 7, 2004.

  1. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    The Bible teaches that there is only one true God, that God was in Christ,(II Corinthians 5:19: "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."), that God is Spirit (John 4:24: "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth", and that God is eternal in contrast to Jesus whose beginning was his birth.

    The basic scripture upon which the Jesus-is-God doctrine has been founded in John 1:1. This has been read and interpreted as follows: "In the beginning was God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost. All three were with God, and all three were God." But this is not what the verse says.

    The question of John 1:1 is who is "the Word" or what is "the Word" (logos). Genesis 1:1 plainly states "In the beginning God.." God alone was from the beginning. How does God who is Spirit communicate Himself as "the Word," logos, with man who is flesh? Humans communticate with each other by way of symobls. These symbols communicate ideas and thoughts. But Spirit cannont communicate with mind, senses or reason as spirit and senses are two separate well defined categories. John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

    Spirit and flesh are in two different realms and each one must stay within its own boundaries. Spirit can communicate with spirit only, and flesh by way of the senses can communicate with the senses or the material realm. How then does God overcome these communication barriers?
    God who is Spirit manifests Himself to men in three ways 1) by His spirit, which was upon special people in the Old Testament and which is in those who are born again during this age of grace (like me) 2) by His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ; 3) by His Word, both the written and spoken. To manifest Himself in the material realm, God had to use a concrete form for senses men to recognize. God gave the revealed Word so that man by his natural faculties might be able to understand the communication from God. When John 1:1 says "...and the Word was with God" it refers to the manifested, revealed logos: 1) the written Word which has come to us as the Bible and 2) the created Word which is Jesus Christ. "In the beginning was the Word [God] and the [revealed] Word was with God..."

    How was this revealed Word with God? The Word was with God in His foreknowledge. God is omniscient, knowling all things: He knew from before the foundation of the world that man which He formed, made and created would sin; He knew from before the foundation of the world that Jesus Christ would redeem man; He knew from before the foundation of the world that it would be possible for man to be born again; He knows our end as well as our beginning. This is what John 1:1 literally says: The revealed "Word was with God" in His foreknowledge: the revealed Word was later to be manifested in writing as the Bible and in the flesh as Jesus Christ.

    How was Jesus with God in the beginning? In the same way that the written Word was with Him, namely, in God's foreknowledge. The reason Jesus Christ is the Word and is called in the Bible the logos is that he was God's plan for man's redemption and salvation. The subject of the entire Bible is God who revealed Himself most completely in His Son, Jesus Christ, the redeemer of man. In the Old Testament, Jesus Christ was in God's foreknowledge and in the foreknowledge of God's people as God revealed this propetic knowledge to them. When Jesus Christ was born, he came into existence. Foreknowledge became a reality.

    God who is Spirit, in order to manifest Himself in concretion, had to reveal Himself and His will in words and in His Son. God's communication of Himself as the logos, the revealed written and spoken Word, came into manifestation when "II Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." And, when the fullness of time came, Jesus Christ who was God's communication of Himself in the flesh was born. John 1:14: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

    John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God" "The same" is this revealed Word which was with God in His foreknowledge from the very beginning. Verse 2 is a repetition of what is noted in verse 1. Why the repetition? To establish what has been said. Whenever God doubles a revelation in the Word, the absoluteness is established. Genesis 41:32 "And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice: it is because the thing is established by God" This truth concerning the revealed Word is so great, so magnificent and wonderful that God had it stated twice to emphasize it and to indicate the definite establishment of it. The preposition "with in verses 1 and 2 of John 1 further confirms the whole truth:"...And the Word was with [pros] God ...The same was in the beginning with [pros] God." There are a vast number of different Greek prepositions translated "with," but only pros could fit here. Pros means "together with and yet having distinct independence"; "intimate and close intercommunion, togehter with distince independence." The revealed Word was together with God and yet distinctly independent of Him. This removes the guessing from John 1:1 and 2 and fits it together with the laws used in language as well as harmonizing the truth with the rest of the Word of God.

    John 1:1 and 2:"In the beginning was the Word [God], and the [revealed] Word was with [pros] God [with Him in His foreknowledge, yet independent of Him], and the Word was God. The same [revealed Word] was in the beginning with [pros] God.

    Verse two could leterally read, "The same [the written Word, which is the Bible, and the Word in the flesh, which is Jesus Christ] was in the beginning with God [in His foreknowledge] Other scriptures what show God's communication to man by way of the prophets who gave us the written Word and by His Son Jesus Christ who was sent by God. Psalms 107:20 He [God] sent his word [by way of the prophets], and healed them... John 5:36:"...the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me." John 5:38:"And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whome he hath sent, him ye believe not" John 17:3:"...that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent"

    The first phrase in John 1:1, "In the beginning" is a significat usage of words. The word "beginning" can be used in two ways. First of all a person could speak of the beginning of a football game in terms of the moment the game begins. In such a case one would say that the players were on the field from the beginning of the game. However, in a more active sense, someone could speak of the beginning of the game as all the preliminary events which lead up to the game including the training of the players, the preparatoin of the stadium, the practicing of the cheerleaders and all other events involved in getting ready for that game. This second usage is the one employed in this first verse of John. "In the beginnning..."

    Notice that the first word in the verse is "in" , not "from" The Greek word is en. If ek or apo had been used meaning "out from" or "away from", a specific point, the time of a definite beginning would have been indicated. The "in", en, of John 1:1 is "in" or "during the beginning," en arche, before the heavens and earth were created. God, who was in the beginning and who was the logos, is eternal. Jesus Christ, who is God's communication of Himself in a person, had a beginning when he was born, yet in God's foreknowledge Jesus Christ was in the beginning. The word for "word in John 1:1 is logos preceded by the article ho. Another Greek word rhema, which is also translated "word", indicates a reference only to the words which are spoken, implying nothing as to the thought or meaning conveyed by the words. However, the word logos, which is God, has reference to the thoughts and ideas conveyed by the spoken Words, the written Words and the incarnate Word. All the spoken, written and incarnate Words were with God in His foreknowlege. They did not come into existence in the senses world until God had someone with whom to communicate. In the beginning (before the creation of the world), the Word, logos, was God and this Word, logos, was with God in His foreknowledge. It was first communicated to man by the spoken and written Word and later by the incarnate Word, His Son Jesus Christ.

    In the next phrase of this first verse of John, is again the same usage of the word logos. However this time logos is coupled with the prepositional phrase "with God". This "with" is the unique usage of the word pros, and the word "God" is employed with a definite article. In other words, the Word was together with yet distinctly independent of the God. There is only one true God who is above all and who was in the beginning. The definite article is employed in the Greek to bring out this distinction that He is the one true God. The Word, which was with God in the beginning in His foreknowledge and which was with God in the beginning in His foreknowlege and which was later spoken, written and made incarnate, had been together with the one true God in His foreknowledge yet distinctly independent of Him.

    The thrird phrase "the Word was God" ties together the first two phrases in this verse. The word "God" has no article for grammatical reasons rather than thought content. "The Word, which was with God in His foreknowledge and later became spoken, written and incarnate, was God" God is His Word the same as you are your word and I am my word. My words are my communication of my thoughts, feelings and ideas to you. Similarly, God's Word is His thoughts and ideas communicated to us. When I make a statement and my word is my will, then my words are just as much a part of me as is my body.

    Verse 2: "The same was in the beginning with God.
    In this first the first two words "the same" are the one Greek word houtos. This word is a demonstrative pronoun normally translated by the English words "this" and refers back to the nearest associated noun, pointing out and bringing special emphasis to that noun. The antecendent in this case is logos, the Word which was God. The words "in the beginning," en arche, are the same as in verse 1, indicating the situation before the creation in Genesis 1. Again the phrase "with the God," pros tou theou, shows that the Word was together with God in His foreknowledge yet distinctly independent of the one true God. All three clauses of verse 2, thereby doubling God's declaration regarding Himself and His Word. The certainty of the reality is thereby established beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    A literal translation according to the usage of the words in verses 1 and 2 of this great first chapter of John reads as follows: "In the beginning [before the creation] God was the Word, and the revealed Word was in God's foreknowledge [which was later communicated to man in spoken Words, written Words and the incarnate word]. This Word absolutely was in the beginning before the foundation of the world together with the one true God in His foreknowledge yet distinctly independent of Him" Verse 3 continues the information divulged in the first two verses of John 1.

    "All things were made by him [God]; and without him [God] was not any thing made that was made." "Him" is the pronoun autou controlled by its closest associated noun which is "God" Therefore, always remember that only God was in the beginning as stated in Genesis 1:1. The usage of the word "all" is always used in one of two ways. It either indicates "all without exception" or "all with distinction". "All without exception" means there are absolutely no exceptions to what is stated. but "all with distinction" means that there are no exception within a certain group; however, there are exceptions outside of that particular garoup. The "all" employed in this verse is "all without exception", since all things without exception were made by God. The words "not anything" are the Greek oude hen which literally means "not even one" So the latter part of this verse corroborates the fact that there is not even one exception. The words "was made" are the Greek word egeneto which means "to bring about" or "to come into being" The verb form is in the aorist tense indication the singleness of the action which happened in Genesis chapter one. God brought everything into existence. He was the cause or the sole mover of everything that was created. The phrase "by him" further corroborates this. The word "by" is the Greek preposition dia which, when indicating instrument or means, is translate "by", the cause of the action. God was the cause of the creation. The manner in which all things were made by the Word of God, who was the cause of the action, is clearly illustrated in Genesis 1 where God says, "Let there be...And there was..." What God said always came about. It was His Word that caused all things to come into reality. Whilte the first two verbs translated "made" in verse 3 are in the aorist indicating the singleness of God's action, the thirst and last verb "made" is in the perfect tense and refers to anything that both was made in the past and which exists in the present, bringing an emphasis to everything that has been created, formed and made. Nothing has come into existence without God's being the Creator.

    Verse 3 clearly marks the beginning of the world that we know, wheras verses 1 and 2 mark that time which was in the beginning before the foundation of the world. In the beginning, only God and the Word in His foreknowledge were in existence. A literal translation according to usage of words in verse 3 is: "All things without exception were made by God who was the cause of their existence. And without God not one thing came into being that has existed or does exist presently"

    John 1:4: "In him [God] was life; and the life was the light of men"
    What was this life which was in God and which was the light of men? this life was the spirit from God, the light of God given in concretion. The spirit from God was upon all the prophets who spoke and wrote God's mind and will; finally, it was upon Jesus Christ himself. Mark 1:10: "and straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens open, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him". The spirit from God made possible spiritual revelation from God to men of God. Not everything that God revealed to the prophets was written. Prophets frequently spoke the Word of God and did not commit it to writing. At other times the prophets wrote what they had earlier spoken. some of the spoken words of the prophets we do not have, but the Word we do have in writing was and still is "the light of men". Not everything that God has revealed to man is recored in the Bible, but that which is needed for salvation and for our learning is recorded. This is the meaning of the statement in John 1:4: "...and the life was the light of men"

    John 1:5:"And the light [God] shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not"

    How did the light shine in darkness before the coming of Jesus Christ? By way of the men of God who spoke or wrote God's mind and will. The clause in verse 5 is a general rather than a specific statement regarding light and darkness. It does not refer to a specific time in the past, in the present or in the future, but rather it is making a generalization about all time. Darkness is the absence of light. Light, heat and all forms of energy are measured in terms of the positive, never the negative. The negative is the absence of the positive. Even from a scientific point of view there is no way that darkness could comprehend light since darkness is the absence of light. That which does not exist cannot overcome that which exists.

    John 1:6 "there was a man sent [apostello] from God, whose name was John. The same [John] came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light [God], that all men through him [John] might believe. He [John] was not that Light [God], but was sent to bear witness of that Light [God]
    The ministy of John the Baptist is given in these three verses. God commissioned John for the special purpose of bearing witness.

    John 1:9:"That was the true Light [God], which lighteth every man that cometh into the world" God is the "true light". By his revealed Word he continues to light every man, even the unbeliever. Without "true light" this would be a totally impenetrable world of darkness.

    The focal point of the opening verses in the Gospel of John sets before us with utmost clarity the centrality of God.

    John 1:10 He [God] was in the world [by the revealed Word], and the world was made by him [God], and the world knew him [God] not.

    Take the time to trace the pronouns and nouns in verses 10 back to their origin. The words "he" and "him" in this verse are the pronouns under consideration. From the Greek they could be either neuter or masculine; in this case they must be neuter since the nearest associated noun would be the true light of verse 9. The true light which was the light of men in verse 4 refers back to the Word which was God in verses 1, 2 and 3. Therefore, it is God who is His Word which has the life in Him, the true light which was in the world through the spoken or written Word which came into the world; yet the world did not receive or believe God's Word, therefore, it could not know God.

    John 1:11"He [God] came unto his own [Israel], and his own received him not" God through His Word came unto His own people, which was Israel. He did this both by His spoken and His written Word. Later He came to His own through His Son Jesus Christ who was the incarnate Word. However, God's own people did not receive that Word. The words "his own" are the Greek words ta idia in the first usage and hoi idioi in the second usage in this verse. The former, in Greek, is the neuter gender while the latter is the masculine gender. God came unto "his own things", that is to His own possessions or those things which were His. but His own people did not receive His Word, in either its spoken or written or incarnate form.

    John 1:12"but as many [of Israel] as received him [God], to them gave he [God] power [exousia, authority, the right] to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on [unto] his name [namesake, Jesus Christ]

    Again trace the nouns and pronouns back, you find that as many as received Him --who was the true light which was the life in the Word --God gave them power to become the children of God by adoption. If they received God's Word, they received God. If they did not receive God's Word, they did not receive God. The means by which God gave them power to become children by adoption was to believe on His namesake, the Word which would become incarnate, which was Jesus Christ. "Jesus" in the Hebrew means "God our Saviour" Jesus Christ was God's Son and was named for His Father. It is unto that namesake, Jesus Christ, that Israel had to believe to be saved, as prophesied in the Old Testament. The word "on" --"to them that believe on" is the preposition eis, meaning "unto". This usage in verse 12 then says, "...to them who continue believing unto [continuously continue to believe on] his name ..." Israel remained as adopted sons so long as they continued believing. The Israelites were not sons of God by birth; but when Israel believed "unto [eis] His name," God adopted them as sons. "Even to them that believe on his name" refers to the name of Jesus Christ, which is above every other human name. He, Jesus Christ, was the "namesake" of God, which name relates back to the source of all life, God.

    A literal translation according to usage of verse 12 would be: "But as many as walked according to the revealed Word given to the prohets and later the releaved Word, Jesus Christ, to them God gave the privilege of adoption as sons of God, to those who continued believing unto the name of Jesus Christ"

    John 1:13: "Which were [who was] born [conceived], not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." The first word, "which," must be the word "who" referring to the "namesake" of verse 12, Jesus Christ. The word "born" is the same word as "begotten" There are a number of different Greek words used in the bible for "will". The Greek word used in the 13 verse "...nor of the will of the flesh," implies desire or anticipation but not determination. This usage is wonderful, far beyond what you realize when first reading it. "Which were [who was] born not of blood, nor of the will [determination] of the flesh , nor of the will [determination] of man ..." Man might desire or anticipate the Christ, but man could never determin Jesus christ's birth. Man could not say, "Now I am going to produce the Christ," because Jesus Christ was not born according to the determinationo of the flesh..." Every woman had the phycial potential to bring forth Jesus Christ; but the will of a human being could not determine the coming of Jesus the Christ because He was born by the will, the determining, of God.

    John 1:14: And the Word [revealed Word, Jesus Christ] was made flesh [the conception], and dwelt among us [his birth], and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

    The verb "was made" is egeneto, as in verse 3. Again this verse is in the aorist tense indicating the singleness of the action: Jesus Christ came once and for all. He did not come on a number of occations, but one time only to redeem man. This verb form is in the passive voice as it was in verse 3, which points out that the Word was made flesh by and outside source. In this case it is God. In order for one thing to be made by another, a difference in the two things is implied. Jesus Christ the Son of God was made by God. God created the sperm, which genetically contained soul-life, that impregnated Mary's egg or ovum. And so the Word, Jesus Christ, was made flesh by God. The word "flesh" is the Greek word sarx. The natural human being is composed of flesh and blood (haima), that is body and soul. However, the soul-life which is found in the blood is determined entirely by the sperm. It is the blood which directs the activites of the flesh. As the soul prospers, so the body prospers. The comma following the word "flesh" represents a period of nine months or a human gestation period. The Word began to be made flesh when God created the sperm in Mary. But that new life did not dwell among the people until the period of nine months later when Jesus Christ was born. The word "dwelt" is the Greek word eskenosen. It comes from the noun skene which means "a tent or tabernacle." Our human bodies are spoken of in the Scriptures as tabernacles. A tent or tabernacle is a temporary dwelling place which is mobile. Our human bodies are only a temp. dwelling place. This world is not our permanent abode; we're just passing through. When the Word became flesh, it had a temporary dwelling place, a human body, the body of Jesus Christ. The word "among" is the Greek word en. It is used to deontoe accompaniment via inclusion. In other words, "the Word" when it became incarnate dwelled in a temporary human body just as all of us. Jesus Christ was a human being, a man who had passions as we do and who was tempted in every point, yet he was without sin. He had his tent in (inclusion) and among (accompaniment with) our tents. The next part of verse 14 is a parenthesis which is a figure of speech in which additional material is added to the text: "(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.) The word "beheld" is the Greek word etheasametha which means "to behold" "observe" or "visualize", but not necessarily with the physical eye. For example, we may observe or visualize another person's interest in what we are saying, not with our physical eyes but by certain other signs that we perceive in observing them. The word "glory" is doxa, meading "brightness." The brightiness of the sun and the moon is cleary seen with the physical eyes, but not all brightness or glory is seen as physical. It may be something known by the things that are seen. "And we beheld or perceived, though not with the physical eyes, his glory or brightness which was felt and known by the things whichh he did while he was here upon the earth." Verse 14 goes on to say that this glory or brightness was as of an only-begotten son. A son innately tends to reflect his father. The word "of" which precedes "a father" is the Greek word para used with a noun in the genitive case and should be translated "from beside" indicating motion from the side of, as a tangent proceeding from the top of a circle. This further indicates the distinction between the Father and Son rather than the two being one and the same: "a glory as of an only begotten from beside a father" The last five words in verse 14 are outside of the parenthesis and refer back to the Word which had its temporary dwelling place among us in God's Son, Jesus Christ. He was "full of grace and truth."
     
  2. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    Thank you and give Father God Glory. I was glued to the page. Bless you,

    I ask you to consider one thing only. The power of Almighty God is so great that isn't it possible that the moment that HE spoke for the very first time, our Lord Jesus Christ came into being. And when Almighty God saw that it was good, He loved it and the Holy Spirit came into being. I don't mean that they became separate from Father God but just like an integral part of Him. I have not explained well but I hope that you understand and again I say thank you for your posting. If you wrote it, well you have received wisdom from Father God worth more than fort knox.
     
  3. quick

    quick Member

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    The Westminster Confession indicates from Scripture that Jesus is begotten, not made. John 1:1--"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. " Jesus, the Spirit, and God are coequal members of the Triune God, and have all existed outside of time. Our God is triune and infinite.
     
  4. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    I believe Jesus Christ was with God in His foreknowledge but until the conception of Jesus Christ in the virgin Mary did he become incarnate. As for the holy spirit I think there is a misunderstanding. God is Holy and God is Spirit and the gift that He gives is holy spirit. In Greek manuscripts the word pneuma, "spirit" is never capitalized. So when the word pneuma is translated "Spirit" with a capital "S" or "spirit" with a small "s", it is an interppretation of no higher authority than the translator giving it. The Giver is God who is Spirit, pneuma, and Holy, hagion. God can only give that which He is.

    Luke 11:13:"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit [pneuma hagion] to them that ask him?" pneuma hagion here is the gift from God the Father, therefor, should be with a small "h" and "s".

    John 3:6:"...that which is born of the Spirit [the pneuma, Spirit, God] is spirit [pneuma, gift]

    John 14:16:"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world can not receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." In the new birth man receives spirit from God who is the Spirit. There appears to be a difference between the gift and the Giver.

    John 7:39:(But this spake he [Christ] of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive; for the Holy Ghost [the gift, holy spirit] was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) Jesus told the disiples that the holy spirit was with them and upon them and that at a future time it would be in them. The reason the gift, pneuma hagion, was not in them was that it was not yet available for them to be born again untill Pentecost. Luke 24:49:"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you:but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." Acts: 1:4:"and being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait until the promise of the Father, which, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy ghost not many days hence."

    Accounts of Pentecost is Acts:2:1:"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they [twelve apostles] were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. and there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost [pneuma hagion], and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit [the pneuma] gave them utterance." In Mark 16:17, Jesus says that believers in His name "shall [absolutely] speak with new tongues." Thus the new birth was avaiable with Pentecost. Then Peter taught how to recieve the new birth Acts 2:38:"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall [absolutely] receive [lambano, manifest] the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

    Romans 10:9:"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." When people believed, they were born again and received pneuma hagion. The gift was in them as stated in Ephesians 1:13:"in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy spirit of promise." After Jesus Christ was sacrificed, resurrected and ascended, it was possible for God to send His gift which dwells permanently in all believers. The communication between God and man was holy spirit which came from God.

    Quick, your god may be triune but mine is Single with oneness. With all sincerity to those who preach the triune 3 equals 1 god share some scripture other then --"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. "= Jesus, the Spirit, and God are coequal members of the Triune God" --that backs it up(yeah right)

    Luke 18:18:"And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God." This verse clearly shows Jesus correcting the ruler for calling him "good master"
     
  5. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    Consider that the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Father God will forgive blasphemy against Himself or Jesus Christ but not the Holy Spirit.

    I also serve a triune God, in all of His Glorious Oneness. I cannot tell you how He created Himself as such but I believe with all my heart that He did because with God all things are possible. I also propose that this is the reason for the Comforter, or the Holy Spirit's delay at Pentecost. This is also the reason the kingdom will be ruled by Jesus Christ or Jesus(God)Christ.
     
  6. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    I guess the "trinity" boggles my mind. I can't seem to understand it. Not once does the Bible mention the word "trinity" however the Bible states that God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, holds an exclusive, unparalleled position, it is imperative that our worship of Him be directed to that position. God is before everything.

    Isaiah 43:10: Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    God is the most holy.
    I Samuel 2:2:"There is none holy as the Lord: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

    God has no equal.
    Deuteronomy 32:39:"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me ...

    God alone holds the power of salvation.
    Isaiah 43:11:"I even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior.

    God does not want His people to know or worship any other gods.
    Hosea 13:4: Yet I am the Lord thy God, from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no savior beside me.

    Exodus 20:3:"Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

    The unique and exalted postiton of God as one God is taught throughout the Word. Thus we must worship God as the one and only God (not a "trinity", the "trinity" is the blasphemy". This only is true and right doctine.

    The origin of "the trinity" comes from pagan beliefs long before christianity in ancient religions. The Babylonians used an equilateral triangle to represent this three-in-one god. The Hindue trinity was made up of the gods Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. The Greek triad was Zeus, Athena and Apollo. A large pagan temple built by the Romans in present day Lebanon of Jupiter, Mercury and Venus. It is a fully documented historical fact that the doctrine of the "christian trinity" was established in the fourth century. Christian converted pagans bringing their "traditions" into the church. This is the blasphemy that consumes the "modern day so-called christian churches.

    And the only unforgivable sin is to be born of the seed of satan. In other words if a person knows the truth (the rightly divided word of truth) and then chooses to serve and worship satan. That is the only unforgivable sin.
     
  7. martha dodge

    martha dodge Member

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    true blood, I can only tell you what I know from my Father God. I use the term triune because every one seems to know it but I still believe there is only one God, only One Father God. As I studied my Bible over the years, I realized how many times Father had tried to communicate with His chosen people. Now, I have never been told why He chose that man Abraham. Father knew his heart so well, I quess. Moses was told that no man can look on the face of God and live. Moses tried to encourage Israel to communicate with Him but they were to cowardly. They just don't understand how much He really loves us. He knew He had to show us and that is where Jesus comes in. Satan was counting on being able to out-do Father so Father just came down in Jesus. We could look and touch and hear Him with out getting the shock of our lives. Father is getting ready to bring all of His children home. Heaven is our home you know. Father sent a big chunck of His Love called the Holy Spirit to keep us in His Peace and Love and Understanding while He gets our home ready.
    All my life, I have had no other Father and I lost my mother awhile back. I have had to look to Him as Father and to Jesus as big brother but He has never let me down. This trinity thing is not as important as realizing that in being able to be in Jesus and in Heaven and on earth at the same time and to take care of all His creation makes Him FATHER GOD to all and He deserves to be worshipped and obeyed. Don't sweat the little things. Father doesn't. Look at what He puts up with in Israel today. Paul had a good idea about that. He says to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord". But I will tell you a little secret, Father really can be a pussycat when it comes to His kids.
    Father loves you and so do Jesus and I.
     
  8. quick

    quick Member

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    In the ancient texts, God is always referred to in the plural. God has fellowship with himself, i.e. he is one and he is multi-faceted. THis is not a stretch at all. We know Father God from the Bible; we know that Christ (the Word) is God from the Bible; and we know the Holy Spirit is God from the Bible. It requires little effort to understand his multi-facetedness, and it is very Biblical. We do not worship multiple Gods, but one multifaceted God.

    This is no different than saying a nickel has heads, tails, and an edge--but they are together one coin.

    God understands the joy of his plural fellowship and its completeness, and created humans in His image to increase that fellowship amongst Him and us. This is the fellowship we can taste here, and can realize fully in heaven.
     
  9. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    I guess each has the right to believe what they want. However as for myself, I don't believe God has any co-equal, or multifacted triad. To give "holy spirit" a.k.a "the gift" an entity feels wrong to me.
     
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