Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You are incorrect. The word created implies agency and purpose. There is not evidence for either. It is a more biased term than magic.
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Uncreated and Formed Things
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
You are incorrect. The word created implies agency and purpose. There is not evidence for either. It is a more biased term than magic.
sorry but you've obviously never heard of the dumb parrot puzzle. unlike mathematics language is imprecise. and we know that mathematics is only a symbol of reality as best can explain it.
The Dumb Parrot
living life and the universe create things from things and have no problem with the idea. explaining it with rigorous math really doesn't explain nature in alll it's processes that seem to exist even with some mathematician telling them otherwise.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Nice story, but that does not excuse a poor choice in language. Why use a misleading term when there is no need to do so?
It was created by an as yet unknown mechanism.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
It has to do with God limiting himself, so the details of realty can come into focus. As a mathematical way to explain this, consider a 3-D ball like a tennis ball. This 3-D object can be approximated with a large number of 2-D circles, all with a common center, but with each circle at different angles.
Each 2-D circle is an aspect of the 3-D ball, but no one 2-D circle can define the entire 3-D ball. Each 2-D ball contains some of the truth; volume, defined by the entire 3-D ball, but none of the 2-D circles are the whole truth.
Humans tend to be more 2-D. We think in terms of cause and affect. We do not, as a whole think in 3-D, which is more like 3-D integration of a wide range of rational ideas, all with a common center, but with each analysis at different angles. This is like the religions of the world; large number of 2-D circles, all integrated in 3-D via a common center; God. The 3-D truth is expressed by all together. It is good to be open-minded.
When the brain writes to memory, emotional tags are added to the sensory content. Our cerebral memory has both sensory content and an emotional tag. Our strongest memories have the s†longest emotional valance; marriage, first child, trauma, etc. Since there are only a limited number of emotions, while sensory content has endless variations, the limited emotional tags tend to be recycled and reused for a variety of similar situations.
For example, say I asked you to list all the foods that you like. All the memories of food, that you have ever liked, will have the common emotional tags of good, satisfying and flavorful. The emotional tag is like a 3-D integrating memory composed of a wide range of specific foods; 2-D or rational prepared, all at different angles; different styles, but all with the same common emotional center; tastes good.
To the natural animal, who thinks in terms of their integration with nature, they only sense the goodness of food, with the omnivores happy with a wide range of this things, since all this is good. Their brain works in 3-D, based on the emotional tags. To see the details in this 3-D integration of the good foods of nature, we need to use the other side of the brain; migrate consciousness to the side of the brain that is more 2-D; differential. This POV allows us to perceive and enjoy the nuances of each 2-D meal, at different angles with the same common center of good food.
In essence, the details of reality were always here, but were originally consciously attached to 3-D the feelings, wit faith integrating the early humans to nature and its bounty.
Knowledge of good and evil reduced conscious perception to 2-D, where good is x and evil is y. This allowed the many 2-D circles to appear, with the logic in each 2-D circle having a common center; part of the truth.
Law, although 2-D and useful, it was a stepping stone and not the final 3-D way to think; faith. Jesus taught of love, which is an emotional tag for memory, that even in 2-D integrates things in 3-D; marriage. But to think in 3-D, the 2-D mind needs to be fully open to see all the 2-D circles that make up this 3-D concept of love. Even love your enemy is one of the 2-D circles, since an enemy can express love in their own 2-D world. Your 2-D word may not wish to accept them, but they are integrated through their own love in their own world; common center.
The ancient people did not have modern science but they had a good handle on the brain's operating system.
IMO
Based on your follow-on comments temporal forms seems to refer to the cosmos, or universe, or whatever term references all that exists.
The straight answer is that we, humanity collectively, do not know what came before matter began to precipitate out of a dense, high temperature, high energy state that began to quickly expand and cool over 13 billion years ago. And since that time, energy/matter has behaved consistent with our current collective understanding of physics, etc
Since we have no way of knowing what came before the expansion, it would be misleading to characterize "before" as a "thing" or as "eternal". It is simply unknown.
And since the initial expansion, matter/energy has behaved in a random and arbitrary way consistent with our understanding of physics, etc , the term "create" would also be misleading as it connotes an agent with purpose. There is no indication of a possible agent.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Temporal is connected to the root word temporary. The universe is evolving with time and what we see today is not what may be tomorrow or yesterday, both in terms of actual reality, and our perception of reality. At one time the earth was flat in terms of human perception. The new state of the art is also temporal in that as our understanding improves, so will the theory.
We live in what is referred to as space-time. Matter occupies space. Matter also changes via the forces of nature through what we call time. Space-time is an integrated concept for how matter changes in space and time, with time and space, integrated by the speed of light. The speed of light is a fast as things can happen in space-time.
In the Big Bang theory there is an early part of the universe called inflation. This is where the universe appears to have expanded faster than the speed of light. It was a brief period, after which the modern limits of nature, connected to space-time, appear and solidify.
There are two simple ways to explain inflation. One is space and time were always connected, but the way they were connected, was originally based on a limit that was much greater than the speed of light. This higher level constant, decreased, quickly, until the speed of light was reached and then our classic space-time appears.
The second possible scenario is that inflation reflected a situation where space-time had not yet integrated, but rather space and time were able to act independently of each other. In this scenario, one could move in time without any constraint from space, or move in space without any constraint of time. The latter would allow movement faster than the speed of light, since time is not integrated with space so there is no speed limit.
The question becomes is there a way to demonstrate a situation where space-time is not integrated, such that space and time, can each act independently of each other? The answer is yes and is connected to an artifact of our neural consciousness.
Let me give an example, in my imagination I can fly to the sun by flapping my arms and reach the fusion core of the sun in less than 1 second. This is impossible to do in physical reality, since all the laws of physics, are connected to space-time, and they will not allow this. This scenario will break to many laws of physics. However, in my imagination these limits of space-time does not fully apply, allowing me too imagine things outside these limits, through a type of neural prism where space and time and are not connected.
It is interesting that the neural matrix of the human brain; frontal lobe, can create an information output that reflects situations not always restricted by space-time. These output are made useful via consciousness. Inflation may have a connection to separated time and separated space made useful via consciousness.
In the imagination of a development engineer, one will postulate ways to solve problems. Some problems are unique and lack current publications and solutions. You will need to imagine things that may work but have never been done. Those efforts that do not work, will not be fully connected to space-time and therefore be limited in the lab, due to violating a law or two of physics. If we can make our imagination only overlap space-time, the solutions will be fully successful, since all the laws of space-time will be obeyed. This focus allows funding for a pilot test and then upscale to production.
Divine consciousness would conceptually exist where space and time are separated. There, endless options would be possible too imagine and could semi-materialize in information based dream scapes. To form our matter based universe within space-time, these endless options need to become limited. This can be done by virtually overlapping space and time but without altering the nature of separated space and separated time; inflation.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
There is so much wrong with this whole thing. For one thing you have the concept of inflation wrong. The universe is still inflating and if one gets far enough away from another object the inflation is still "faster than the speed of light"
Our consciousness, what we think and feel, is entirely dependent on the physical components of our central nervous system, just as with all other creatures with a central nervous system. There is no consciousness independent from this physical structure. Alter or damage the structure and you will alter or damage the resulting consciousness.
The consciousness or mind can only interact with the surrounding environment through the physical body. There is no way for our mind to act on the physical world except through the physical body, and as such is entirely limited to the laws of physics.
Yes, we can imagine things that are impossible, imaginary, not bound by the laws of physics, but there is no way to make the physically impossible possible.