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Uncovered Meat???

retrorich

SUPER NOT-A-MOD
Senior Muslim Cleric Triggers Outrage in Australia by Blaming Women for Rape 10-26-2006 8:43 AM
By ROHAN SULLIVAN, Associated Press Write
SYDNEY, Australia -- A senior Muslim cleric compared women who go without a head scarf to "uncovered meat" left out for scavengers, drawing widespread condemnation and calls Thursday for his resignation.
Sheik Taj Aldin al Hilali denied he was condoning rape when he made the comments in a sermon last month, and apologized to any women he had offended, saying they were free to dress as they wished.
Hilali was quoted in The Australian newspaper Thursday as saying in the sermon: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ... without cover, and the cats come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's?"
"The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred," he was quoted as saying, referring to the headdress worn by some Muslim women.
Prime Minister John Howard called the remarks "appalling and reprehensible."
"The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous," Howard said.
The comments come during a heated debate in Britain about religious freedom centered around whether Muslim women should wear veils. Similar passions raged when France banned head scarves and other religious symbols in public schools two years ago.
In Australia, there was widespread condemnation Thursday of the cleric's comments from other Muslim leaders, civil libertarians and political leaders.
Australia's Sex Discrimination Commissioner Pru Goward said Hilali's comment was an incitement to rape and that Australia's Muslims should force him to resign.
"This is inciting young men to a violent crime because it is the woman's fault," Goward told television's Nine Network. "It is time the Islamic community did more than say they were horrified. I think it is time he left."
Hilali is the top cleric at Sydney's largest mosque, and is considered the most senior Islamic leader by many Muslims in Australia and New Zealand.
He has in the past served as an adviser to the Australian government on Muslim issues, but triggered a controversy in 2004 for saying in a sermon in Lebanon that the Sept. 11 attacks were "God's work against the oppressors." Hilali said later he did not mean that he supported the attacks, or terrorism.
Relations between Australia's almost 300,000 Muslims and the majority Christian-heritage population are tense following riots last December that often pitted white gangs against youths of Middle Eastern decent.
Howard offended some Muslims recently by singling out some Muslims as extremists who should adopt Australia's Western liberal attitudes to women's rights.
Many Muslims say they are increasingly treated with suspicion since the Sept. 11 and other international terrorist attacks. Waleed Aly, a member of the Islamic Council of Victoria state, said Hilali's comments would result in more antagonism toward Muslims.
"I am expecting a deluge of hate mail," he said. "I am expecting people to get abused in the street and get abused at work."
Hilali said in a statement he was shocked by Thursday's reaction to his sermon.
"The presentation related to religious teachings on modesty and not to go to extremes in enticements, this does not condone rape, I condemn rape," he said.
"Women in our Australian society have the freedom and right to dress as they choose, the duty of man is to avert his glance or walk away," he said.

:eek: :eek: :eek:
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Prime Minister John Howard called the remarks "appalling and reprehensible."
"The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous," Howard said.

For once I agree with Howard on something.
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
no means no, who ever it is and however they dress - i am appauled by such statements, a lot of rape victims blame themselves, and people pushing this kind of filth does nothing to help them :mad:
 

Laila

Active Member
retrorich said:
Senior Muslim Cleric Triggers Outrage in Australia by Blaming Women for Rape 10-26-2006 8:43 AM
By ROHAN SULLIVAN, Associated Press Write
SYDNEY, Australia -- A senior Muslim cleric compared women who go without a head scarf to "uncovered meat" left out for scavengers, drawing widespread condemnation and calls Thursday for his resignation.
Sheik Taj Aldin al Hilali denied he was condoning rape when he made the comments in a sermon last month, and apologized to any women he had offended, saying they were free to dress as they wished.
Hilali was quoted in The Australian newspaper Thursday as saying in the sermon: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ... without cover, and the cats come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's?"
"The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred," he was quoted as saying, referring to the headdress worn by some Muslim women.
Prime Minister John Howard called the remarks "appalling and reprehensible."
"The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous," Howard said.
The comments come during a heated debate in Britain about religious freedom centered around whether Muslim women should wear veils. Similar passions raged when France banned head scarves and other religious symbols in public schools two years ago.
In Australia, there was widespread condemnation Thursday of the cleric's comments from other Muslim leaders, civil libertarians and political leaders.
Australia's Sex Discrimination Commissioner Pru Goward said Hilali's comment was an incitement to rape and that Australia's Muslims should force him to resign.
"This is inciting young men to a violent crime because it is the woman's fault," Goward told television's Nine Network. "It is time the Islamic community did more than say they were horrified. I think it is time he left."
Hilali is the top cleric at Sydney's largest mosque, and is considered the most senior Islamic leader by many Muslims in Australia and New Zealand.
He has in the past served as an adviser to the Australian government on Muslim issues, but triggered a controversy in 2004 for saying in a sermon in Lebanon that the Sept. 11 attacks were "God's work against the oppressors." Hilali said later he did not mean that he supported the attacks, or terrorism.
Relations between Australia's almost 300,000 Muslims and the majority Christian-heritage population are tense following riots last December that often pitted white gangs against youths of Middle Eastern decent.
Howard offended some Muslims recently by singling out some Muslims as extremists who should adopt Australia's Western liberal attitudes to women's rights.
Many Muslims say they are increasingly treated with suspicion since the Sept. 11 and other international terrorist attacks. Waleed Aly, a member of the Islamic Council of Victoria state, said Hilali's comments would result in more antagonism toward Muslims.
"I am expecting a deluge of hate mail," he said. "I am expecting people to get abused in the street and get abused at work."
Hilali said in a statement he was shocked by Thursday's reaction to his sermon.
"The presentation related to religious teachings on modesty and not to go to extremes in enticements, this does not condone rape, I condemn rape," he said.
"Women in our Australian society have the freedom and right to dress as they choose, the duty of man is to avert his glance or walk away," he said.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

It is a repulsive concept and totally against the spirit of the teachings of Islam.
How dare they say such thinks? but again only a minority of men hold such disgusting views - unfortunately all Muslim men get blamed! - I think it is fair for me to say this since I've found that (and most recently) the decent men have to justify themselves to the mass.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Comparing women to meat is shocking, but not entirely surprising - and reveals the exceptionally low view of women in a society that largely tolerates rape.

Besides, a fully covered woman "in her room, in her home, in her hijab," does not protect her from being raped by a friend or family member and then being killed by her family for her impurity.
 

Laila

Active Member
angellous_evangellous said:
Besides, a fully covered woman "in her room, in her home, in her hijab," does not protect her from being raped by a friend or family member and then being killed by her family for her impurity.

Good point, which makes the reasoning of men who have stated such things pants!
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The cleric's thinking perfectly reflects the twisted thinking of at least half the world's rapists. It's beyond me how such a thinker can consider himself a spiritual leader. He deserves the condemnation he's getting from other clerics.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
To be fair, Sheik Taj Aldin al Hilali appeared on our lunchtime news, with an apology for what he said.

Unfortunately, his apology sounded as mixed - message as the Pope's recent apology when he unwisely used a quote about Islam.
 

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
Rapes are about low life cowards who are insecure with themselves and want to feel powerful by taking advantage of someone less powerful. I know of an old woman who was in her home when she was raped by her good for nothing next door neighbour (a young man). How could she have encouraged the rape? I get so angry when I hear about people who are taken advantage of. Why should a woman be considered as meat? We are not objects to be exploited and pounced on. We are human beings also. Do you know that pornography contributes to rapes? I read an article about Ted Bundy, the serial murderer/rapist. He said he started with soft porn and gradually wanted something more. Women outside of one's family should be seen as mothers and sisters. I read an article in a magazine by my hairdresser's about a girl (I can't remember from which country) who secretly met a man (I'm not sure if they slept together) and it brought so much shame to her father that he held her head under water in their yard's fountain until she died.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
michel said:
To be fair, Sheik Taj Aldin al Hilali appeared on our lunchtime news, with an apology for what he said.

Unfortunately, his apology sounded as mixed - message as the Pope's recent apology when he unwisely used a quote about Islam.

That's good, but not enough. He should be working against the very view that he has: that women are meat.
 

Revasser

Terrible Dancer
michel said:
To be fair, Sheik Taj Aldin al Hilali appeared on our lunchtime news, with an apology for what he said.

Unfortunately, his apology sounded as mixed - message as the Pope's recent apology when he unwisely used a quote about Islam.

Yes, it's not really an apology. It's the kind of apology you get from a child when you catch them stealing a piece of cake. He's sorry that he got caught and called out for it, he's not sorry for holding or expressing that view from a position of authority.

It's wonderful so see some high-profile Muslim women on the news basically calling for his head.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
It was appalling when I heard the translation.

Sheik Taj Din al-Halali is Australia's leading or highest Muslim cleric. He was preaching to 500 Muslim men, and his entire sermon was recorded.

Laila said:
It is a repulsive concept and totally against the spirit of the teachings of Islam.
How dare they say such thinks? but again only a minority of men hold such disgusting views - unfortunately all Muslim men get blamed! - I think it is fair for me to say this since I've found that (and most recently) the decent men have to justify themselves to the mass.
I don't think you've understood the entire speech, Laila.

He was directing not just to rape of all women (Muslims and non-Muslim), he was specifically targetting at Muslim women.

He referred to the "uncovered meat" as Muslim women who don't wear traditional Islamic clothing.

He stated if animal (I think it was a cat, he said) see uncovered meat, is the cat to blame or the uncovered meat? He blame the uncovered meat. So basically, he suggesting that the rapists are not entirely to blame; the blames goes to the victims (Muslim women).

In Melbourne, there's not as much as problem with rapes or gang-rapes committed by Muslim-Lebanese youths. There are problems of Muslim Lesbaneses in Sydney, however, where they have been involved in a number of gang-rapes.

One Lebanese youth, who was tried for gang-rape in Sydney, last year (or this year, I don't remember too well), stated that it was in his Islamic right to do what he did, which was to take part in the gang-rape.

I am not saying or blaming Islam, Laila; I seriously think he is using this as an excuse, so he can blame Westerners for religious persecution, which is nonsense. I hold that the rapist is to blame. But you must realise what non-Muslim people's views when they hear such thing being spoken by the youth. Of course, they are going to react unfavorably or negative against Islam.

This Lebanese youth didn't just get it from anywhere. Someone is teaching him such appalling thing. And after hearing Sheik Taj Din al-Halali's speech, then you should realise that it is the failure of one of these Muslim clerics, who may have incited these youths to commit such crimes; not media exaggeration.

You should place the blames where they truly belonged, Laila. With those youths, who were involved in rapes, and with clerics who teach such thing, as al-Halali had done so.

al-Halali seemed to think he has done no wrong. Even though, he was said to have apologise, such apologies are not worth it, when he doesn't apologise in public. If it is good enough for al-Halali to make such speech before 500 Muslims, then he should apologise to all Australian Muslim women in public before the media, if he is really sincere. Otherwise, he should step down as Islamic cleric, because he was the one who brought shame to Islam.

Even senior Muslim Australian women want him to step down for making such thing speech.
 

kai

ragamuffin
what a ridiculous statement ,where are the protests? "not in my name" where is the outrage?
 

kai

ragamuffin
gnostic said:
What are you referring to, kai?
i am refering to the lack of voice of the muslim street, except for statements from kaffur if this is not Islam then it is slander
coulter-muslim-protest.jpg
 

Peace4all

Active Member
*sigh* Here's another "Muslim" making Islam look bad... Anyhow, if you compare the statistics of women raped by muslim men compared to women raped in america you can see a huge difference. I think that men should be able to control themselves a little better than cats though. As I grow up I get the impression that men really have weak resistance to sex. Then again you have the women who run off and secretly meet men over unsecured relation ships and get raped. Then they come back and complain about it! I believe in: The golden mean, the moderate course between extremes. Women shouldn't run around too much and expose too much of their bodies, and men should refrain themselves from sex. A good start would be reducing the pornography content and slowly eliminate it.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Peace4all said:
Anyhow, if you compare the statistics of women raped by muslim men compared to women raped in america you can see a huge difference.
Let's see them. Is there any reason a woman would report a rape in a Muslim country? Doesn't she face punishment for the rape if she does?
 
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