Unconditional Love

[YmirGF]

Though I openly acknowledge what @Jayhawker Soule stated and do respect that, I tend to agree that it is certainly not completely unconditional. In infants and small children, I'd say definitely. It's hard not to love the little buggers and vice versa, but as they grow it does become more aloof and conditional.

The one thing I will share and I hope you appreciate this @Sunstone is that my one major bite from unconditional love actually spiraled down into a severe depression that lasted for several years. It took me awhile to connect the dots, but that was also part of the healing. I can't really convey the immense magnitude of the experience, but even with the following depth of depression, it was certainly worth it. I'm a very lucky man. And yes, it changed my life, and for the better. I think it was also very frightening. I almost thought I was going mad.... in a wildly pleasant way... but, still...

 

[Sunstone]

You need to do something about being so fragile, its not about you. It is about the thought.

Jay doesn't need anyone to defend him, but your criticisms are -- in my experience of him -- so far off the mark that I would urge you to reconsider them.

In the dozen years Jay and I have cheerfully and intrepidly annoyed each other on this forum, he's demonstrated that he is anything but fragile.

Perhaps more importantly, he is one of the least likely of all posters to make any issue about himself. I know his remark might seem to have done that, but I have learned to interpret his remarks as characteristically more objective than that. In this case, I think he means something along the lines of, "You appear to be projecting your own feelings onto other people." Only, being Jay, he says it more colorfully than that.

 

[Sunstone]

No disrespect to you personally, I question the purity of that love, selfish motives dance in the background.

This opens a can of worms. However, parental love is a wee bit off topic here since it differs significantly from the sort of love referred to in the OP, wouldn't you say?

 

[Sunstone]

I think unconditional love would be like that but extended beyond normal physical capacity. You'd hurt for everyone. You could imagine loving everyone, and you could believe that you loved everyone. I suppose you could pull it off, but from a normal point of view you'd be insane. You'd be nonfunctional.

Recall that the unconditional love spoken of in the OP is rare, brief, and more of a perception than an emotion. I believe you're thinking of a different beast.

Its possible that there is a drug that would make you love absolutely everyone unconditionally. I wonder if that will be discovered someday.

According to many accounts, it already has. Unfortunately, it's illegal. I'd name it for you, but I don't want to inadvertently encourage its use by anyone reading this post. But if you're curious, Brick, just PM me. You, I trust.

 

[Sunstone]

Unconditional love, in my view, lies not in the body or in the mind, but universal consciousness. Humans have a predisposition to fight amongst themselves for trivial reasons, but this unconditional love, in the presence of an outside threat, can cause complete strangers to band together and protect one another.

An example that comes to mind. In the midst of all of the partisan in-fighting and chaos of the 2000 presidential election, the majority of people in the US, regardless of partisan lines or religion, banded together to protect one another as a result of the 9/11 attacks.

This unconditional love can be more prevalent in those that form a spiritual connection by way of such things as a parent/child relationship.

Your remarks strike me as interesting, but I think you might have in mind some species of love other than that of the OP. Perhaps there is more than one kind of unconditional love.

 

[Sunstone]

Unconditional love, as the phrase implies, only applies to situations in which there are no conditions imposed on the object of that love - no expectations.

Yes, that's clearly stated in the OP.

I can see having that relationship with a young child, but almost nobody else.One can disassociate from a hateful or disloyal adult child, spouse, adult relative, etc.. There is no duty to keep offering the benefits of one's love to others that don't meet minimal conditions.

I think you might be thinking of a different kind of unconditional love than the kind being spoken of in the OP

Loving enemies is not a virtue any more than trusting them is. Enemies have to be satisfied with indifference and separation.

In terms of the love spoken about in the OP, loving one's enemies would not be a choice. If you were to have an experience of unconditional love, you wold most likely love everything within your perceptual field at the time of your experience. If that happened to include your enemies, you'd probably love them too.

 

[Sunstone]

A lot depends on where we set the parameters of our being "conditioned".

I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean by "the parameters of our being conditioned"?

 

[Sunstone]

Once you love unconditionally you always love unconditionally. However, you may not like what or who the one you love has become.

That may characterize a species of unconditional love, but it does not characterize the unconditional love referred to in the OP. The OP's love is brief, albeit life-transforming. In my 35 or so years of interest in this topic, I've only rarely come across accounts of it lasting for more than a few moments to an hour or so. The longest credible account has been three days.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Your remarks strike me as interesting, but I think you might have in mind some species of love other than that of the OP. Perhaps there is more than one kind of unconditional love.

I went back and reread the OP. Just out of curiosity, what conditions do you perceive in the species of love in my example that differ from those described in the OP? Perhaps I'm reading something into the OP that's not there or missing something that is.

 

[DavidFirth]

In my view, there is such a thing as unconditional love*. However, so far as I know it is:

• relatively rare (doesn't happen to everyone, and infrequently happens to anyone),
• usually extremely brief (typically lasting only moments),
• is as much (or even more so) a perspective or way of perceiving as it is an emotion,
  
• cannot be forced to come about (there is no guaranteed path to it, or means of bringing it about),
• is typically life-transforming.

It's nature makes it difficult to research scientifically, but I suspect it has a neurological basis, and that it is closely related in physiology to the mystical experience of oneness.

But what's your own take on unconditional love?



*Selfless love that is given freely, without demanding that the beloved comply with any requirements as a condition of being loved. Not to be confused with love that is merely self-sacrificing. That is, selfless love does not entail self-sacrifice. The "beloved" here can be a person, place, thing, or -- perhaps most often -- an entire perceptual field.

EDIT: I should have written here that the "beloved" -- or object of one's unconditional love -- is almost certain to be the contents of one's entire perceptual field. Thus it is most likely to include everything one is perceiving during the experience of unconditional love.

Only God is capable of unconditional love.

 

[Sunstone]

I'd like to see the opinions of people who think that God offers unconditional love.

Physiologically, it seems to me that unconditional love is closely associated with the same regions of the brain responsible for the mystical experience of oneness -- which is often interpreted as an experience of god. I cannot prove it, but I strongly suspect that the notion "God is love" originates in a simultaneous experience of unconditional love and oneness.

 

[Sunstone]

Truly unconditional love is very rare to me. It's like the sun which shines even when there are clouds and even at night. Most people can only rarely approach it under certain conditions but love without any conditions is not possible for the vast majority of human beings. Only the Divine and those whose lives are wholly Divine can experience it fully.

What do you make of accounts of unconditional love being experienced by rather bad people?

 

[Sunstone]

I think unconditional love is permament.

Here we must disagree. Perhaps we're thinking of two different things.

Children are a good example. Even though not all parents unconditionally love their children. I would hope that most do

For some interesting ways in which the unconditional love of the OP differs from the unconditional love of parents, see post 37..

Unless your specifically talking about romantic unconditonal love.

Romantic love is a whole nother beast to me.

 

[Sunstone]

What about those guys in marriages who take advantage of their partners "unconditional love" through domestic violence?

That kind of unconditional love is not something I myself would likely refer to as "unconditional love". More like severe emotional dependency, in my experience.

 

[idav]

Babies produce unconditionaI for most mothers for sure. I will just bring in the science and settle this.

Its scientifically proven we are softies for baby animals!

Babies just make people happy, but also other animals like puppies and kittens. It's babies survival mechanism else hey would be left crying in the wilderness.

4 Reasons Why Babies Make You Happy - Health & Parenting

Looking At Cute Animal Pictures At Work Can Make You More Productive, Study Claims | HuffPost

Oh and it wears off, they don't stay babies forever.

 

[Enoch07]

Here we must disagree. Perhaps we're thinking of two different things.



For some interesting ways in which the unconditional love of the OP differs from the unconditional love of parents, see post 37..



Romantic love is a whole nother beast to me.

Ah I see what your saying kinda.

For one thing, I think it is well enough established that the oxytocin bond forms the hormonal basis of parental love, but that hormone and bond appear to me to play little or no role in the species of unconditional love that I spoke about in the OP. The OP's unconditional love does not -- at least on the surface -- seem to be associated with a "molecule of emotion", such as oxytocin, at all. Rather it seems to be more of a perspective than an emotion.

But I wonder about adopted children. I did not conceive, carry, or birth my adopted child. But still love her unconditionally and would die for her in a heartbeat. Not to toot my own horn or anything, and solely as proof of my unconditonal love. It must be made known that she is a bisexual and agnostic neither of which bother me. I still love her and would die for her.

So what is the source of my unconditional love if not for chemicals/horomones?

Sorry, I am not trying to derail your thread. I clearly see you are not talking about love between a parent/child or romantic love now. I am just curious is all.

 

[Deidre]

It must be made known that she is a bisexual and agnostic neither of which bother me. I still love her and would die for her.

Just out of curiosity, why must it be ''made known'' that she is bisexual and agnostic, and you still love her?

 

[Enoch07]

Just out of curiosity, why must it be ''made known'' that she is bisexual and agnostic, and you still love her?

Because Christians in the past have been known for disowning children who do not live up to their standards. This is not unconditional. I may not agree with her, or even understand her totally. But I do still love and respect her. In fact we are damn near inseperable, despite our differences, because I believe she loves me unconditonally as well, even if she does not agree with me, or understand me. We love and respect each other regardless. Is this unconditonal or am I mistaken?

 

[Deidre]

Because Christians in the past have been known for disowning children who do not live up to their standards. This makes it unconditional. I may not agree with her, or even understand her totally. But I do still love and respect her. In fact we are damn near inseperable, despite our differences, because I believe she loves me unconditonally as well, even if she does not agree with me, or understand me. We love and respect each other regardless. Is this unconditonal or am I mistaken?

Your post nearly made me cry, it's really sweet what you are saying here. And yes, that's unconditional. I just wondered why you mentioned it. Keep up the nice work, you seem like a good father.

 

[Enoch07]

Your post nearly made me cry, it's really sweet what you are saying here. And yes, that's unconditional. I just wondered why you mentioned it. Keep up the nice work, you seem like a good father.

Thank you, honestly your reply touched my heart. Thank you.