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UN chief warns global leaders: The world is in ‘great peril’

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I don't believe you have studied fascism.
In 1991, I was sponsored by the Holocaust Memorial Center, along with 30 other educators across the country, and we studied here in the States, spent two weeks in Poland going through the death camps and talking with officials, and then on to Israel for another week of study. Before that, I taught a two-week unit on the Holocaust and other forms of genocide and then increased it to three weeks after I returned.

But my studies didn't stop there, as my next project was to study the NAZI propaganda machine, especially focusing in on Der Sturmer. I went to numerous seminars on the subject, and I still am active in this even though I've been retired for 20 years now.

Now, let me suggest you get and read the book "Strongmen: Mussolini To the Present" by NYU professor Ruth Ben-Giat, who's considered one of the foremost experts on the subject of fascism.

So, I've done the homework, so now the ball is in your court: will you maybe get the book [Amazon has it] and read it, or will you just ignore the above.

BTW, to accuse someone else of being dishonest without even much knowing or having the common courtesy of even asking them, especially one who says he's a "Disciple of Jesus", tells me something.
 

Five Solas

Active Member
The Holy Spirit is not an inerrant encyclopedia of history.
Do you deny that Scripture is inspired? By the Holy Spirit? Who is God?
Between religion and science, my priority for objective and factual information is the latter. However, it is not my spiritual guide.
Are you a Christian? If so, why?
Where did I say or suggest that God could not have created all?
Because evolution does not need God - is it solely dependent on natural selection to shape its path.
There is no place for a Creator in that scenario.
So, if the Bible is supposedly inerrant, please provide objective evidence for that?
You are an undercover atheist? Why bother going to church if that is your attitude? If spiritual guidance is all one craves then one could just as well read Harry Potter. The one is more entertaining.

What is your view of God? An incapable being (if you think He actually exists) unable to reveal Himself in history (act in time and space), unable to guide human authors to write down what they observed correctly? If not that, what then?

The Bible IS salvation history and a self-revelation of Himself. We have NO need for other sources to verify that. If you cannot grasp that then you probably do not know God yet.

BTW, the difference between theological liberalism and atheism is paper thin. One is more honest.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Do you deny that Scripture is inspired? By the Holy Spirit? Who is God?
Inspired is not an absolute in itself. I can be "inspired" to go to church, which I usually am, but that doesn't mean that the church, I, or what I feel is absolute.

Are you a Christian? If so, why?
I think it should be clear by now that I am.

Because evolution does not need God - is it solely dependent on natural selection to shape its path.
There is no place for a Creator in that scenario.
False, so maybe read this: Theistic evolution - Wikipedia

You are an undercover atheist? Why bother going to church if that is your attitude? If spiritual guidance is all one craves then one could just as well read Harry Potter. The one is more entertaining.

What is your view of God? An incapable being (if you think He actually exists) unable to reveal Himself in history (act in time and space), unable to guide human authors to write down what they observed correctly? If not that, what then?

The Bible IS salvation history and a self-revelation of Himself. We have NO need for other sources to verify that. If you cannot grasp that then you probably do not know God yet.

BTW, the difference between theological liberalism and atheism is paper thin. One is more honest.
I not only don't share your opinion in some areas, but I also strongly dislike your condescending and judgmental approach.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Thinking about it, I do not know what you are trying to say. You unleashed this huge smokescreen to hide something and vomited poison against a newspaper that does not suit your ideology missing the whole point.

You clearly do not know me which I understand because I have not been here long.

I did not question any evidence. If you think I did then it is because of your overzealous passion for the ideology you follow whatever it may be.

Now, put your opinion to one side .... bah!!! - what a silly remark!
You seriously don't understand my argument? I have a hard time thinking of ways I could make it clearer. I can try to do so if you would like me to?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Corporate conglomerates can only appear with the help of government, interfering in the free market.
Sadly, that's just patently false. Capitalism (systematized greed) automatically seeks a monopoly for the purpose of maximum economic exploitation. Because the ideal trade in a greed-bases system is 'you (the consumer) give me all the money you have, and I (the producer) will give you as little as I can possibly get away with in return'. And the way to achieve that end is to create a monopoly that you are forced to trade with.

Nearly all markets these days are 'captive' markets. Not 'free' markets. Meaning that the buy must buy the goods and service being offered, to survive. So that if there is only one seller, or the various sellers choose to act as one entity, they can charge whatever the buyer has, regardless of the actual value of their product. Take health care, for example. The buy must literally "buy or die", and all the sellers know it. So they are ALL charging wildly inflated prices and taking in massive profits simply because they can. They have voluntarily created a monopoly, and they are using it to exploit everyone else for massive profits. And they're all riding the gravy train: the drug companies, the insurance companies, the hospital conglomerates, the medical equipment manufacturers, ...

And the only thing that can stand in the way of their continuing to fleece everyone for all they can get, is the government. Because the government can impose price caps, and set profit limits, and can even take over the hospitals and insurance and drug companies if they must to protect the people from all this blatant and destructive greed and exploitation. Which is why the capitalists spend huge sums of money bribing and corrupting the government to make sure it doesn't interfere with those massive profits.

But it's not just the health care market, it's the energy market, the housing market, the transportation and communication markets, and the job markets, too. ALL gouging the people for as much as they can get, leaving huge segments of the population constantly on the edge of economic disaster, and many beyond it. Get old, get sick, lose a job, or even a way to get to a job, and you're out. The greed-based system has no use for you if you have nothing left for it to exploit for it's own profit.
In the free markets, competition keeps things honest.
But there are very few actual free markets, anymore. Only the luxury markets, and markets that involve so much innate variety (like food) that they can't be monopolized are still free markets. Every other market: all the markets that we must participate in to survive, and NOT FREE MARKETS. They are 'captive' markets. Ideal for monopoliesto exploit for maximum profit to themselves.
An overprice product, like green energy, would not do very well in a free market. But when government interferes, such as artificially with driving up the price of oil to make green look better, then all types of problems begin. This has led to inflation since the price to ship everything increased.
The government has been bought off and is using our tax money to subsidize the big oil companies so they can keep their profits up while keeping their prices down (somewhat). If we were paying them free market prices for their gasoline, most of us could not afford to buy it. What you don't understand is that NONE OF THE OIL COMPANIES want to sell a 100 gallons of gas for $10 a gallon. They ALL want to sell 10 gallons of gas for $100 a gallon. Because all they really want to take in as much money as possible, and pay out as little as possible. They couldn't care less that only the very wealthy could afford their product. All they want is the maximum price in exchange for the least cost.

But I can see from your post that you have drunk the capitalist's coolaid and so you now believe that "free markets" will save the world, when in fact captive markets have enslaved the world, and the capitalists are using them to strangle us all, economically. But the capitalists have told you that the government is your enemy (because it's really their enemy) so now here you are blaming everything on the government, just like the capitalists have trained you to do.

Because the only thing the capitalists actually fear is a government that does in fact represent the needs of the people that they are so eager to exploit for every penny they can get.
 

Five Solas

Active Member
I know it well. It is possibly the greatest compromise in the history of Christianity to artificially force science into religious beliefs. Compromises are often a form of syncretism. The major principle of that approach is modern science, not the almighty creator God. Theistic evolution is in my view undercover deism - a huge danger for our understanding of God. Many so-called Christians are deists without realizing it.

God reveals Himself as a supernatural being doing supernatural things in supernatural ways. If you remove supernatural creation from the equation then every other miracle must be questioned including the virgin birth of Christ and the concept of incarnation. We should then do away with every miracle Christ performed on earth and His resurrection. Let's add prophecies as well.

Science cannot explain any of that. You have a wholly different Bible with an entirely different message.

I believe prophecies are messages directly from God and those messages include predictions mostly about the future. Many prophesies about the future are vague and unclear. However, Moses was also a prophet. God communicated many messages via Moses including that He is the creator - a very vague and unclear depiction of the history of the universe. That was a prophecy relating to the past.
 

Five Solas

Active Member
I not only don't share your opinion in some areas, but I also strongly dislike your condescending and judgmental approach.
I follow a very dogmatic approach to biblical truths - i.e. why we believe what we believe. People normally find that intimidating because it asks for clear explanations of why we believe what we believe.

In my experience, many people identify as Christians without clearly understanding why.
There are about 40000 different denominations pointing to great confusion - or big egos - in Christianity. That division is probably the single biggest enemy of Christianity today.

I think it is vital that Christians become vastly more knowledgeable and that we break with modernist individualism.

It is important that we agree. That can only happen if accept God for who he really is the pure biblical message. We also need to break the stranglehold of modern culture on our thinking. We are merely visitors on earth and we know much less than we think we do.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
In my experience, many people identify as Christians without clearly understanding why.
There are about 40000 different denominations pointing to great confusion - or big egos - in Christianity. That division is probably the single biggest enemy of Christianity today.
Since I've taught theology Christian and the theology of Judaism to adults for over two decades, I do think I know what I'm talking about.

If you have to ask, which is really quite insulting, then there's no reason for me to continue on with your condescending arrogance that's contrary to what Jesus taught when he insisted that we "love one another". Scriptural inerrancy was not one of his commandments even though he often scripture.

I'm done with this, and you should really work on realizing that your viewpoints are not the only ones that may be valid.
 

Five Solas

Active Member
Since I've taught theology Christian and the theology of Judaism to adults for over two decades, I do think I know what I'm talking about.

If you have to ask, which is really quite insulting, then there's no reason for me to continue on with your condescending arrogance that's contrary to what Jesus taught when he insisted that we "love one another". Scriptural inerrancy was not one of his commandments even though he often scripture.

I'm done with this, and you should really work on realizing that your viewpoints are not the only ones that may be valid.

I find it alarming that a person who claims to be a Christian is unwilling to explain why.

I never claimed that my views are the only valid ones (your false accusation) but I am willing to put my insights on the table for discussion. I know I am a Christian and why I can say that. Care to discuss that.

Our duty is to be witnesses and to make disciples - that includes teaching and correcting. The Bible teaches that creation reveals the knowledge of God (Ps 19), which is infinite. Worldly knowledge is often opposed to biblical truth (1Tim6). Godly knowledge comes from fearing the Lord—being in awe of Him and submitting to Him (Prov 1).

If you share your views then be prepared for criticism, questioning, and debate.
 

muhammad_isa

Well-Known Member
If you share your views then be prepared for criticism, questioning, and debate.
Absolutely.
Do you say that the majority of scientists are wrong, when they say mankind has evolved to what we are today?
If so, how do you explain it?

Similarly, do you say the majority of scientists are wrong when they say that climate-change is caused by us burning fossil fuels, and we need to take it seriously?
If so, how do you explain it?
 

Five Solas

Active Member
Do you say that the majority of scientists are wrong, when they say mankind has evolved to what we are today?
If so, how do you explain it?

I'm not a scientist and do not speculate about science.

I'm a theologian and I believe in God and Jesus Christ who is God the creator.

I believe the Genesis creation accounts are prophesies pointing backwards - that is if you define a prophesy as a message from God. Moses was a prophet. Many prophesies are vague and unclear lacking precise details. Moses received the information about creation directly from God. God was clear, He created but he did not give much details.

I do not know how God created the universe and how long it took in human time, but I cannot deny God's involvement in every detail. So, I reject any claim that God was not involved because science cannot prove it. God cannot be proven. There are countless supernatural events described in the Bible. Supernatural events cannot be scientifically scrutinised either - of which creation is the first and most important. It tells us something crucial about God.

Scientific evolution excludes God by definition. Mutations and natural selection is behind scientific evolution. I believe God is behind all of creation.
 

muhammad_isa

Well-Known Member
Scientific evolution excludes God by definition. Mutations and natural selection is behind scientific evolution.
No it doesn't.
Only if you take it to extreme, and believe that anything and everything is "evolution" .. which is demonstrably false.

That things evolve is a well-established scientific fact.
There are practically no scientists that dispute it.

I totally agree that Almighty God is behind all that we see.
He is the "Evolver from naught". :)
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Scientific evolution excludes God by definition. Mutations and natural selection is behind scientific evolution. I believe God is behind all of creation.
Theistic evolution - Wikipedia -- "Theistic evolution (also known as theistic evolutionism or God-guided evolution) is a theological view that God creates through laws of nature. Its religious teachings are fully compatible with the findings of modern science, including biological evolution."
 

Five Solas

Active Member
"Theistic evolution (also known as theistic evolutionism or God-guided evolution) is a theological view that God creates through laws of nature. Its religious teachings are fully compatible with the findings of modern science, including biological evolution."

Please quote a scientific study where research had been done to show that God creates through the laws of nature.

I say that is a compromise made by theological liberalism.

Some claims that Adam is a literary device, rather than a historical individual. That changes the entire biblical message.

Example: genealogies of Gen 5, 1Cron1, and Luke 3 all find their first parent in Adam - biblical genealogies sometimes omit names but never add fictional or mythological figures.

Another example: The role Adam plays in Paul’s theology makes Adam’s historical reality integral to the basic storyline of the gospel. He contrasts the sin of “the one man,” Adam, with the righteousness of “the one man,” Christ. To remove that historical problem of Adam’s sin wouldn’t just remove the rationale for the historical solution of the cross and resurrection. Paul unpacks a tight parallel between the first man, Adam, through whom came death, and the second or last man, Christ, through whom comes new life.

I have the book of Denis Alexander from Cambridge on my shelf somewhere where he describes this compromise of his 'forced' theology.

The fact remains, The Genesis accounts are quite specifically Adam and Eve who are created in God’s image. It is not just that some beings were created in God’s image, and that this could later be realized by a couple of their descendants. Quite the opposite: gen 2:7 seems to be an example of the text going out of its way to emphasize a direct, special creative act to bring the man Adam into being.
 
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muhammad_isa

Well-Known Member
Please quote a scientific study where research had been done to show that God creates through the laws of nature.
That makes no sense.
Science cannot show what is behind "nature".

Your insistence in Bible literalism is unfounded.
Even Jesus himself, spoke in parables.

It makes little difference in theology, whether God created us by "poof, and we exist", or by some other means.
It's a waste of time concentrating on that.
It won't achieve anything .. learning about what Jesus actually taught will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I might add, that if we all were careful about putting into practice what Jesus taught,
we wouldn't be facing climate catastrophe, as we are.
 

Five Solas

Active Member
Your insistence in Bible literalism is unfounded.
Even Jesus himself, spoke in parables.

Unfounded? Oh, really?

Why did I not expect you to agree? (What a pity you failed to grasp what I actually said. That tells me much about you and your intentions. What I actually said is far removed from literalism - which you should have known if you read what I said with comprehension.)

If you interpret the Genesis creation accounts as a parable you are sadly mistaken. That will definitely be unfounded.

And yes, Jesus Christ often used parables to make a point - mostly a point regarding real life. Nothing unusual about that. He also used symbolic language regularly.
However, He did not only speak in parables.

Do you know what Jesus said which is very real - especially on a board like this:
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat. 7:15

As Christians, we are very aware of that.

This is what the Christian church believes and what I also believe:
The Apostles' Creed
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth...

I will not apologize to you or anyone for believing that because that is the truth. Amen
 
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