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Umm...what is the Israeli government thinking?

kai said:
this is the middle east ,the holy land, its eye for an eye ,no turning the other cheek here.these governments are at war with each other, the israelis use an iron fist and hamas wants the complete destruction of israel. not much holy about it is there, more a land of despair.

This is a very good point that you make. These people on both sides of this conflict are not Christians. They do not believe in forgiveness or turning the other cheek. Both of these people and their religions are geared towards blaming everyone else except themselves for their misfortunes. What is really sad to see is how each side sees the other side as nothing more than cockroaches. They have no regrets and no second thoughts whenever they blow up innocent children and families. Both sides easily justify their actions as long as those being injured or killed are on the other side of the fence. This is truly a region of the world that is totally void of Christian principles and compassion.

:rolleyes:
 

Ody

Well-Known Member
Saint George said:
and their religions are geared towards blaming everyone else except themselves for their misfortunes.

Excuse me? Tell me in the Talmud, Torah or Quran where what you say is fact.
 
Saint George said:
This is a very good point that you make. These people on both sides of this conflict are not Christians. They do not believe in forgiveness or turning the other cheek. Both of these people and their religions are geared towards blaming everyone else except themselves for their misfortunes. What is really sad to see is how each side sees the other side as nothing more than cockroaches. They have no regrets and no second thoughts whenever they blow up innocent children and families. Both sides easily justify their actions as long as those being injured or killed are on the other side of the fence. This is truly a region of the world that is totally void of Christian principles and compassion.

Except in both Intifada there have been Christian Palestinians, funny that. I suppose they aren't REAL Christians though, as they might not have names like John, more likley Yahya.
 

meganmac

New Member
Saint George said:
This is a very good point that you make. These people on both sides of this conflict are not Christians.

It would be so very easy to bring up incidences such as the Crusades to point out that Christians do not always act in a way that reflects "Christian principles and compassion." However, I won't.

Saint George said:
They do not believe in forgiveness or turning the other cheek. Both of these people and their religions are geared towards blaming everyone else except themselves for their misfortunes.

Hold on there, cowboy. Let's not go insulting other people's religions, especially when I find it likely that you, in actuality, know very little about the principles of either Judaism or Islam.

Saint George said:
What is really sad to see is how each side sees the other side as nothing more than cockroaches. They have no regrets and no second thoughts whenever they blow up innocent children and families.

Killing civilians? That sounds kind of like what the US has done in wars before; and unless something has changed drastically in the last five seconds, the US remains an intensely Christian-dominated nation, with a self-described Christian president. Hmmm...

Saint George said:
Both sides easily justify their actions as long as those being injured or killed are on the other side of the fence.

Yep, that sounds like a war to me.

Saint George said:
This is truly a region of the world that is totally void of Christian principles and compassion.

:rolleyes:

You do realize that Christians live in Israel, right?
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
Saint George said:
This is a very good point that you make. These people on both sides of this conflict are not Christians. They do not believe in forgiveness or turning the other cheek. Both of these people and their religions are geared towards blaming everyone else except themselves for their misfortunes. What is really sad to see is how each side sees the other side as nothing more than cockroaches. They have no regrets and no second thoughts whenever they blow up innocent children and families. Both sides easily justify their actions as long as those being injured or killed are on the other side of the fence. This is truly a region of the world that is totally void of Christian principles and compassion.

:rolleyes:

I do not believe Christians are any better. Please look at Northern Ireland for comparison.:p

There is nothing to do with religion, when it comes to conflict and war. It is just simply human nature of survival instinct gone haywire, forgetting that to survive, man must also cooperate with other man, instead of killing one another.

Other Christian compassion can be seen throughout history, such as the near to obliteration of the North and South American native during the early American history, on the claim of these people did not believe in the Christian God, and hence are barbarian and do not deserve being treated as a human.

Going further back, the conflict between France and Britain may also be considered to have a root in the 'evil' of Christianity.
And to look further back a the Crusade, where we have so many interesting stories. I do not believe these show good principle and compasion for Christians.

Then the suppression of scientific idea and the persecution of scientists cannot be deemed as deeds of campasion carried out by Christians:D
 
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Flappycat

Well-Known Member
AlanGurvey said:
Foolish, those areas have no identity what so ever as an independant culture or body.
Yeah, they do. They like nice things. Make it an ultimatum to the Pals and the Israelis: if they can't work out who owns it, we'll give it to a new government they have no connection to other than having spent the past half century making their lives unbearable between the two of them. You don't need a thousand years of history to understand the language of filthy lucre. Hey, better yet, if they can't agree on who owns it, then it's the property of Bill Gates. He's the only fellow I'd say is businessman enough to make it profitable. If we could get the whole world to back us up on it, the putzes end the conflict and work out a solution then and there. We could call it the Peace of Gates. Hey, how about Peace Vista? And it'd work if only our governments had the cajones to follow through. The only way they'll accept the idea of working out their conflicts like adults is if someone rams it forcefully down their throats; religious extremists and nationalists are hard to deal with because they have a cause, but ignorant, little hillbillies just need a whoopin'.
 

kai

ragamuffin
kai said:
this is the middle east ,the holy land, its eye for an eye ,no turning the other cheek here.these governments are at war with each other, the israelis use an iron fist and hamas wants the complete destruction of israel. not much holy about it is there, more a land of despair.
when i made this post i did not intend a christian reference point what i meant was its hard for westerners to understand the mindset of these two waring factions,the two nation state was being carried out and has been derailed by Hamas as soon as Israel pulled out of gaza hamas took it as a retreat not a solution and then used it as a missile platform. Its not just one soldier! get this that soldier is Israel its past its present its future, they will not leave him alive or dead and do you know what Hamas knew this from the start.
 

kai

ragamuffin
greatcalgarian said:
I do not believe Christians are any better. Please look at Northern Ireland for comparison.:p n ireland is a repulican and loyalist problem hence the Irish Republican army

There is nothing to do with religion, when it comes to conflict and war. It is just simply human nature of survival instinct gone haywire, forgetting that to survive, man must also cooperate with other man, instead of killing one another. I agree

Other Christian compassion can be seen throughout history, such as the near to obliteration of the North and South American native during the early American history, on the claim of these people did not believe in the Christian God, and hence are barbarian and do not deserve being treated as a human. I agree that the south american thing was a tragedy and was done in the name of god and gold and gold was almost a god

Going further back, the conflict between France and Britain may also be considered to have a root in the 'evil' of Christianity.the dispute between England and France was about english Kings who had a claim to the french throne eg the plantagenets. unless yopu mean Napolean
And to look further back a the Crusade, where we have so many interesting stories. I do not believe these show good principle and compasion for Christians.the crusades were a direct result of the muslim invasion of the Levant war in the middle ages was brutal

Then the suppression of scientific idea and the persecution of scientists cannot be deemed as deeds of campasion carried out by Christians:D
i dont understand this
 

kai

ragamuffin
Khalid Muhammad said:
The chinese are very unlikely to invade Japan (despite of the Manchurian adventure of last century), and were in tri-national talks along with S.Korea the other day thinly veiled as talks on Tourism.

There are three words when it comes to the international community doing anything about Israel....United States' Veto.



china is unlikely to invade japan,for the same reason north korea is unlikely to invade south korea....united states
Israel has already tried to pull out of |Gaza but its Hamas thats pulling them back in .
“Take your life in your own hands, and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame.”
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
Saint George said:
This is a very good point that you make. These people on both sides of this conflict are not Christians. They do not believe in forgiveness or turning the other cheek. Both of these people and their religions are geared towards blaming everyone else except themselves for their misfortunes. What is really sad to see is how each side sees the other side as nothing more than cockroaches. They have no regrets and no second thoughts whenever they blow up innocent children and families. Both sides easily justify their actions as long as those being injured or killed are on the other side of the fence. This is truly a region of the world that is totally void of Christian principles and compassion.

:rolleyes:
Whoah! Okay, that's certainly enough implication that Christians are the only people capable of compassion.:sarcastic
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
kai said:
Israel has already tried to pull out of |Gaza but its Hamas thats pulling them back in

This is what they want the world to believe in.

To know that for sure without any hesitation, let's examine Israel's actions before pulling out from Gaza and after, supporting it with great writers in America and in other countries around the world, Israeli leaders and their newspapers as well.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Israel's Infrastructure Warfare

By Mike Whitney​

Israel is now openly engaged in infrastructure warfare, the wanton destruction of the basic platforms of human survival. The bombing of the electric power plant has thrust the world's most densely populated area into darkness; cutting off the vital flow of energy to hospitals, assistance centers, and the pumping stations which provide the city's water. At the same time, Israel has bombed large sections of the main roads, government buildings, water lines and bridges. The Associated Press said, "Israeli tanks and bulldozers crossed the Gaza Strip and began razing farmland east of Khan Younis".​

"Razing farmland" is critical in understanding the real motive behind the current aggression. The attack is directed against Palestinian civilians, not terrorists and not Hamas. Israel is purposely destroying the means for continued human survival in Gaza.​

We can now see that the practical application of the Israeli axiom, "to destroy the terrorist infrastructure" actually means the gratuitous decimation of civilian life-support systems.

Officials from the World Food Program, which feeds 600,000 people in the West Bank and Gaza, have warned of an impending humanitarian crisis saying that Palestinians are already living on one meal a day and that there has been a steady increase in malnutrition, anemia and kidney problems from poor nutrition.

At a special meeting of the UN Security Council on Friday, Dr. Riyadh Mansour, the Permanent Observer of Palestine, said that the Israeli invasion "was clearly premeditated and planned" weeks if not months before the capture of the Israeli soldier. Mansour added that the bombardment and military assault were clearly designed to "punish and terrorize the civilian population."​

Members of the Security Council quickly moved to pass a resolution condemning the Israeli invasion but were blocked by the United States. As long as the US occupies a place on the council, Israel's attacks on Palestinian civilians will go unpunished.​


The unfolding crisis in Gaza was predicted by Uri Davis, Ilan Pappe, and Tamar Yaron in July 2005. Their statement reads:



"We believe that one primary, unstated motive for the determination of the government of the State of Israel to get the Jewish settlers of the Qatif (Katif) settlement block out of the Gaza Strip may be to keep them out of harm's way when the Israeli government and military possibly trigger an intensified mass attack on the approximately one and a half million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, of whom about half are 1948 Palestine refugees.​
The scenario could be similar to what has already happened in the past - a tactic that Ariel Sharon has used many times in his military career - i.e., utilizing provocation in order to launch massive attacks."(Justin Podur, znet)

Clearly, Israel's motives for the invasion have little to do with the abduction of Gilad Shalit by Hamas militants. In fact, Israel has stubbornly refused to negotiate for the release of the 19 year old corporal; preferring instead to carry out its carefully considered plan for making life untenable in Gaza. This suggests that the invasion is actually another attempt to ethnically cleanse the land of the native people by cutting off their access to vital food and supplies.​

The strategy for purging the land of its indigenous people is a recurrent theme in Israeli politics dating back to the inception of the state in 1948. Former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon summarized it this way: "You don't simply bundle people into trucks and drive them away. I prefer to advocate a positive policy, to create, in effect, a condition that in a positive way will induce people to leave."



Sharon, of course, is advocating a form of "transfer," which "creates the conditions" that will drive people off the land rather than marshalling armies to achieve the same goal. This is what is presently taking place in Gaza.

Regime Change in Ramallah​

Israel's attacks on the democratically-elected Hamas government have been instructive but not surprising. Soon after the January elections, Israel resolved to remove Hamas from power regardless of the cost. Apart from the daily assassinations and incitements, Israel has spearheaded a blockade of food, medical supplies and financial resources to the desperate people in the occupied territories. Israel has also supplied Mahmoud Abbas' loyalists in Fatah with truckloads of weapons in a conspicuous effort to destabilize the government and promote internecine warfare. The move has weakened support for Abbas and made him look like an Israeli agent. (His smiling appearance with Olmert in Jordan soon after the bombing of 7 family members on a beach in Gaza, has done nothing to restore Abbas credibility among his people)​

At 2 AM on Sunday morning the Israelis bombed the offices of Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya; a chilling reminder that the territories are ruled from Tel Aviv not Ramallah. Just a day earlier, Israeli Special Forces rounded up 64 members of Hamas including legislators, cabinet ministers, and officials. The illegal arrests have been roundly criticized by leaders across the political spectrum, and particularly harshly by Aengus Snodaigh, member of the Irish Parliament. Snodaigh said that the arrest of Hamas government officials "demonstrates the true nature of Israel's commitment to 'not so democratic' values" and that "Israel was one of the most despicable and abhorrent regimes on the planet."​

Snodaigh backed up his claims noting that (according to the UN Secretary General for Public Affairs) the "in the month prior to the capture of the Israeli soldier at least 49 Palestinians, including 11 children, were killed by Israeli forces and 259 injured." It should also be added that since Israel withdrew from Gaza in September of 2005, they have fired between 7,000 to 9,000 heavy artillery shells into Palestinian civilian areas.

Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz confirmed that the arrests "had been planned several weeks ago" which proves that Corporal Gilad Shalit's capture has been used as a mere pretext to execute Israel's broader policy objectives. (Ethnic cleansing and transfer)



Ironically, the arrest of Hamas' officials could be beneficial to the cause of Palestinian liberation. After months of trying to topple Hamas through roundabout methods, Israel has taken a more direct route by simply arresting those who they oppose. This underscores an important point about the realities of life under occupation. There is no democracy under occupation because all the crucial aspects of sovereignty have been foreclosed. No Palestinian leader controls his borders, air space, military, resources, commerce, or even food and medical supplies. What good does it do to create the impression that Palestinians are free by conducting elections?

The West Bank and Gaza are giant concentration camps. Elections create the unfortunate illusion of democracy and normality. It is a cynical public relations hoax intended to assuage the world's conscience and put people to sleep.​

By arresting government officials, we can see that Palestinian democracy only exists when it suits Israel's interests. It is a complete sham.​

The reality of occupation is evident by the facts on the ground and in the photos now appearing from Gaza of bombed-out buildings, traumatized children, bereaved parents and utter hopelessness.

Israel has robbed the Palestinian people of their freedom. The elections were a fraud. The issue continues to be occupation, and occupation alone.​


Source: http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=1093119015
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The Truth said:
This is what they want the world to believe in.
Those jews are a sneaky and sinister lot ...

Tell me, Truth [sic], what do you think should be done with the soldier, and with those behind the Kassam rocket barrage against civilians?
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Those jews are a sneaky and sinister lot ...

Tell me, Truth [sic], what do you think should be done with the soldier, and with those behind the Kassam rocket barrage against civilians?

I have even a more sinister suggestion from conspiracy theorist point of view:

The kidnapping of the soldier was engineered by the Israeli special agent task force to provide the excuse for the invation.:p :biglaugh::biglaugh:
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Those jews are a sneaky and sinister lot ...

Tell me, Truth [sic], what do you think should be done with the soldier, and with those behind the Kassam rocket barrage against civilians?

So simple ...

(Ethnic cleansing and transfer)
The same as the zionest used to do.​
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
The Truth said:
So simple ...

(Ethnic cleansing and transfer)


The same as the zionest used to do.​
I sincerely hope that you do not mean to advocate ethnic cleansing as a solution for the current situation in the Holy Land. Is this what you meant? I know that English is not your first language and so your intended point may be something somewhat different, but if you did intend this how it sounds then it is truly appalling. I don't know what the solution might be but it certainly isn't that.

James
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
JamesThePersian said:
I sincerely hope that you do not mean to advocate ethnic cleansing as a solution for the current situation in the Holy Land. Is this what you meant? I know that English is not your first language and so your intended point may be something somewhat different, but if you did intend this how it sounds then it is truly appalling. I don't know what the solution might be but it certainly isn't that.

James

Hi dear James,


You can notice this passage from my pervious post:

Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz confirmed that the arrests "had been planned several weeks ago" which proves that Corporal Gilad Shalit's capture has been used as a mere pretext to execute Israel's broader policy objectives. (Ethnic cleansing and transfer)

Therefore, I said it in ironic way because Israel is trying to apply "Ethnic cleansing and transfer" against the palestinians civilians and all the world is silent. I just wanted to say that Israel think that this is the way in how to solve this problem instead of negotiating with the Palestinians whether to exchange prisoners or any other solution.

I'm so interested to know how would be the reaction of the members in RF if what is happening now was held by the Palestinians (if they have the power) but not by Israel because of one soldier only. Just wondering how many threads they gonna start to condemn the so called "palestinians terrorists." :(

No one can say that Israel is a terrorist government because Bush didn't say so , i reckon.
 

kai

ragamuffin
The Truth said:
Hi dear James,


You can notice this passage from my pervious post:

Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz confirmed that the arrests "had been planned several weeks ago" which proves that Corporal Gilad Shalit's capture has been used as a mere pretext to execute Israel's broader policy objectives. (Ethnic cleansing and transfer)

Therefore, I said it in ironic way because Israel is trying to apply "Ethnic cleansing and transfer" against the palestinians civilians and all the world is silent. I just wanted to say that Israel think that this is the way in how to solve this problem instead of negotiating with the Palestinians whether to exchange prisoners or any other solution.

I'm so interested to know how would be the reaction of the members in RF if what is happening now was held by the Palestinians (if they have the power) but not by Israel because of one soldier only. Just wondering how many threads they gonna start to condemn the so called "palestinians terrorists." :(

No one can say that Israel is a terrorist government because Bush didn't say so , i reckon.
but its not just about the soldier is it, what about the rocket attacks,and i have know doubt the arrest of Hamas officials was planned before , and we dont need to speak hypothetically because Hamas are terrorists.
two facts seem to keep getting overlooked
  1. the rocket attacks on Israel
  2. Hamas is at war with Isael
by ignoring this it wont go away
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
JamesThePersian said:
I sincerely hope that you do not mean to advocate ethnic cleansing as a solution for the current situation in the Holy Land. Is this what you meant?
That is precisely what he meant.
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
The Truth said:
Therefore, I said it in ironic way because Israel is trying to apply "Ethnic cleansing and transfer" against the palestinians civilians and all the world is silent. I just wanted to say that Israel think that this is the way in how to solve this problem instead of negotiating with the Palestinians whether to exchange prisoners or any other solution.
Why should Israel attempt to negotiate with Hamas or any other Palestinian terrorist organization, when history proves that it never works, and that when compromise is met Palestinians break any resolution, treaty or agreement with violence?
 
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