Umbanda esoterica? Anyone know of this and can explain it?

[Psyroucke]

I am pretty sure this is the right place for this, and if not, I apologize and please feel free to move it to the appropriate one.

@LuisDantas answered my 'hello' post and turned me to learn about Umbanda, and as I was reading about it, I found that there were, as in many religions, different paths off of it. The one I can not find (in English) is Umbanda esoterica. So, any information (or accurate translations-Google translate was not helpful) would be most appreciated. I feel like this MIGHT be what I was looking for, but I am not sure without being able to read anything.

 

[LuisDantas]

Please take what I say with a grain of salt, for I am not really very familiar with these matters and I suspect that there is a lot that depends on the eye of the beholder here.

Nonetheless, I am making a honest effort at presenting useful information.



Umbanda Esoterica (Esoteric Umbanda) seems to be aligned with a specific author, Roger Feraudy.

This site promises to teach about it from the successor of its founder (presumably a disciple of Feraudy): http://ftu.eadbox.com/cursos/umbanda-esoterica


This one mentions an "Esoteric and Initiatic Umbanda" that may or may not be related: http://www.paijoaquim.com.br/as-umbandas-dentro-da-umbanda/

It may or may not be the same line found at http://www.nomundodasumbandas.com.br/2015/06/novos-estudos-01-umbanda-esoterica-e.html


Another take on Esoteric Umbanda is described in the Brazilian Portuguese site at http://www.umbandaesoterica.com.br/?page_id=407


There is a fairly high chance that some groups with similar names do in fact develop their doctrines in fairly different ways, though.

 

[Psyroucke]

I had come across the last one, but Google translate does not provide full sentences into English, so it is really hard to read. It seems to be the only one with that issue, so my guess is it is written in some type of dialect? (Though since I only know Spanish and Italian, is a very broad guess).

 

[LuisDantas]

If I may, some elaboration on the history and relationships of Umbanda with other beliefs might be of use.

Umbanda and Candomblé are the two general lines of Afro-Brazilian beliefs. They share a lot of history and concepts, but seem to develop and interpret them differently, not rarely dividing into splinter groups - they are not very centralized and formalized religions, far as I can tell.

Both are to some extent condensations of previously existing African beliefs. Brazil has a lot of history of African slaves coming in Portuguese ships and spending the rest of their lives here, under fairly inhuman conditions. Despite the cruel treatment, they have miscigenated to a reasonable degree, and their beliefs have spread as well. Nowadays a practicioner of Umbanda or Candomblé is perhaps more likely to be a blonde caucasian than to be of clear African ancestry.

Umbanda (and Quimbanda) are animistic / spiritualistic lines, while Candomblé is not.

Umbanda is not the most influential animism in Brazil. That would be Kardecist Spiritism, which is somewhat similar to Umbanda in its practices, but tends to insist in emphasizing the contrast of its teachings, in part because Kardecism sees itself as strongly related to Christianity.

By its turn, the origin of Umbanda and perhaps even more that of Candomblé is also influenced by Christianity (specifically Roman Catholicism), because the African slaves and their descendants were expected to follow Catholic beliefs and punished if they did not. At some point the Orishas were presented to Catholics as being alternate names for Catholic Saints. That seems to be a largely obsolete custom, though.

There is some gypsy (Roma) beliefs influence as well. Saint Sara Kali / Saint Sarah has a considerable following among Umbandists and/or Candomblé adepts.

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Sara_Kali

 

[Psyroucke]

If I may, some elaboration on the history and relationships of Umbanda with other beliefs might be of use.

Umbanda and Candomblé are the two general lines of Afro-Brazilian beliefs. They share a lot of history and concepts, but seem to develop and interpret them differently, not rarely dividing into splinter groups - they are not very centralized and formalized religions, far as I can tell.

Both are to some extent condensations of previously existing African beliefs. Brazil has a lot of history of African slaves coming in Portuguese ships and spending the rest of their lives here, under fairly inhuman conditions. Despite the cruel treatment, they have miscigenated to a reasonable degree, and their beliefs have spread as well. Nowadays a practicioner of Umbanda or Candomblé is perhaps more likely to be a blonde caucasian than to be of clear African ancestry.

Umbanda (and Quimbanda) are animistic / spiritualistic lines, while Candomblé is not.

Umbanda is not the most influential animism in Brazil. That would be Kardecist Spiritism, which is somewhat similar to Umbanda in its practices, but tends to insist in emphasizing the contrast of its teachings, in part because Kardecism sees itself as strongly related to Christianity.

By its turn, the origin of Umbanda and perhaps even more that of Candomblé is also influenced by Christianity (specifically Roman Catholicism), because the African slaves and their descendants were expected to follow Catholic beliefs and punished if they did not. At some point the Orishas were presented to Catholics as being alternate names for Catholic Saints. That seems to be a largely obsolete custom, though.

There is some gypsy (Roma) beliefs influence as well. Saint Sara Kali / Saint Sarah has a considerable following among Umbandists and/or Candomblé adepts.

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Sara_Kali

I know of Kardecist Spiritism, I have read his book actually. How I first fell into Spiritism. However, the emphasis on Jesus specifically does not sit right with me, and the what I consider to be overly Christian spiritualist churches I feel uncomfortable in. The more 'pagan'-based that incorporate shamanism and just a higher power I feel more at ease in.

 

[LuisDantas]

I had come across the last one, but Google translate does not provide full sentences into English, so it is really hard to read. It seems to be the only one with that issue, so my guess is it is written in some type of dialect? (Though since I only know Spanish and Italian, is a very broad guess).

Not quite a dialect, but a very specialized vocabulary and some unusual phrase constructions, perhaps not entirely clear. The vocabulary and some underlying assumptions are so specialized that I fear that they may easily hold different meanings between groups.

Let me try to give a sense of what that page says:

A Umbanda Esotérica é a grande religião do século XXI. Umbanda com cultura, esclarecimento, absorvendo os ensinamentos de diversas religiões e filosofias, sem contudo perder suas raízes oriundas dos Cultos Afros; é a … Umbanda com raízes, pé no chão.

"Esoteric Umbanda aims to develop in the 21st century, to learn from various other lines, all the while remaining true to its African Beliefs roots."

É de conhecimento geral de todos os iniciados, médiuns e adeptos, que a Umbanda é brasileira, pois em nossa cultura, sabemos que ela se formou com os próprios escravos provenientes do continente africano, que aqui aportaram. Cultuavam os Orixás e através a mesclagem com os indígenas que aqui já habitavam e que também se beneficiavam das diversas formas da natureza, constituíram após o desencarne, na Religião autêntica e verdadeira, atuando na forma espiritual como orientadores e que conhecemos como os nossos “Pretos(as) Velhos(as)” e “Caboclos(as).

"All participants are well aware that Umbanda is a Brazilian belief, originated here (in Brazil) from the African slaves that here arrived. They worshipped the Orishas and mixed with the Native People who were already here at the time and that benefitted from the natural environment and resources."

There seems to be an implication that at least some Native People became spiritual guides after their physical deaths, and that it is those guides that they call "Pretos Velhos" ("Old-Aged Black Men") and "Caboclos" (miscigenated caucasian / native brazilian people offspring).

Na realidade somos uma parte desta árvore frondosa que é o Espiritismo, ou seja, uma vida após a passagem terrena e com certeza de uma continuação, através as diversas reencarnações.

"We are in truth a part of that splendid tree that is Spiritism. That is, (we believe in) a life after the earthly stay and the certainty of a continuation through various reincarnations."

Absorvemos os ensinamentos milenares, do Brâmanismo, do Taoísmo, do Budismo Zen, do Hinduísmo, do Hermetismo, da Kaballah, do Cristianismo, do Caiballion, dos Essenios, da Fraternidade Branca, da Alquimia, etc. Como não assimilar os ensinamentos dos Grandes Mestres, como Jesus Cristo, o nosso Oxalá, de Apolônio de Tiana, do grande Hermes, de Sidarta Gautama (BUDA), de Lao Tse, de Confúcio, dos Mestres Ascencionados, de São Thomaz de Aquino e sua grande obra Teologia, da Alquimia, do Xamanismo e de centenas de outras personalidades como Alan Kardek, Charles Richet, Camille Flamarion, Leon Denis, Swedenborg, Conan Doyle, etc. E ficaríamos enumerando uma série interminável de presenças, em diversas épocas da humanidade.

"We learn ancient teachings from Brahmanism, Taoism, Zen Buddhism, Hinduism, Hermetism, Kaballah, Christianism, Caiballion, Essenes, White Fraternity, Alchemy, etc. How could we not adopt the teachings of Great Masters such as Jesus Christ, our Oxalá, Apollonius of Tiana, Hermes, Sidarta Gautama / Buddha, Lao Tsu, Confucius, the Ascended Masters, Saint Thomas of Aquinus and his great work, Theology, Alchemy, Shamanism and hundreds of other personalities such as Alan Kardec (...) (and many others from...) various periods of humanity's history."

Enfim, Umbanda Esotérica é a mesma Umbanda com amor e carinho para com o semelhante, porém com estudo e aplicação de todo cabedal legado pelos antecessores, em conjunto com a força e a vibração dos nossos Orixás.

The bottom line is that Esoteric Umbanda is Umbanda itself, with love and caring for our peers, but with study and the use of all of the legacy from those that came before us, together with the force and energy of our Orishas."

 

[Psyroucke]

Thank you! A lot of the nouns were left out in the middle of a sentence for me or chunks of words.

 

[LuisDantas]

You're welcome. Best of luck with your pursuit.

 

[Cassandra]

My view:

As far as I can tell this is a a Christian sect that borrows from indigenous elements. I believe it was mentioned here before and used by Christians to refer people interested in Paganism to. This movement was created by Christians and is heavily around mother Mary worship. Mother Mary was introduced by the Catholic church to attract Pagans especially women to their cult. For me it feels a bit like McDonalds adding local dishes to attract people to their Hamburger.

Paganism is about historical cultural traditions with a strong connection to one's ancestry and land and without any particular founders. It is not about cults. Cults spring up in every society and borrow elements from all kinds of traditions. They do not grow through a long tradition but are constructions by men. There is nothing Pagan about Cults. For instance so called Pagan symbols can be found in almost any religion.

What people see as Pagan are mostly universal symbols. For instance Hitlers hooked cross was not a Swastika for him but a Roman Catholic cross he had seen in the chapel he came as boy. Nothing Pagan just a symbol for the proactive "positive Christianity" he advocated. Roman Catholicism picked up lots of Pagan elements to help convert people, but cleverly changed their meaning to serve their own needs. That is what cults do to attract people, as most cults seek to expand.

Paganism is about traditional religion. That is what sets it apart from cults like Abrahamism, Satanism, Umbanda esoterica. Those are cults. The difference is easy. A Scot is a Scot, will always be a Scot. A true Scot feels connected to his people, his land, his history, his unique culture. Scots do not go over the world to turn people into Scots and water down their tradition.

But cults are often actively spread and any person can take on a cult. A Scott can take on Satanism or Christianity or any other occult belief created by some founder who claims to have had a revelation. Cults are around a founder and often around a particular God. It has cult followers. They are united in worshiping a particular God. Often there is some kind of bond and initiation ritual. But there is great variety in cults. The founders ideas are often put in text as a foundation and to teach new members.

I generally regard cults as the corruption of original polytheist religion. It often brings people under the influence of a dominating particular spirit, whereas the polytheist lives in respect for all spirits but remains free from such bondage. Sure a polytheist often has a special connection with a spirit but there is no bondages turning them into servants like in cults for instance Abrahamism. They are not enticed or scared to keep worshiping a spirit.

Abramist religions being cults have in turn sparked a lot of other cults, some of which extremely bind people. Often cult leaders gain considerable power and wealth through these cults. That is why Abrahamic cults have become multinationals with enormous influence, and as a result we are in perpetual religious wars as some of them strive for global expansion and world domination.

My personal inclination is to stay away from cults, but that is me. I realize that some people have desires for the occult and want to fulfill them.

This might be interesting for people interested in Catholic Mother Mary worship with new age elements. I am sure there is a market for that. As so often I think this thread is more suited for the New Age Dir as this cult is a typical new age phenomenon that has little to do with historical mainstream religious Pagan traditions.

I think this DIR should be reserved for either traditional Pagan religions, or reconstructions of those religions, not all kinds of cults that spring up around cult leaders that add elements of traditional religions to make their cults more attractive.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Paganism is about traditional religion. That is what sets it apart from cults like Abrahamism, Satanism, Umbanda esoterica. Those are cults. … I generally regard cults as the corruption of original polytheist religion.

Africans shipped as slaves to the Americas couldn't practice their traditional religion. In the USA they were forced to become Protestants, but in Latin America they were able to cloak their practices with sufficient Catholic trimmings for them to be acceptable. To call such practices "cults" as if they were Scientologists is offensive. Most of the African disapora religions were not created by cult leaders, but sprung up naturally. Umbanda Esoterica may have a founder, but the broader Umbanda certainly didn't.

I think this DIR should be reserved for either traditional Pagan religions, or reconstructions of those religions, not all kinds of cults that spring up around cult leaders that add elements of traditional religions to make their cults more attractive.

In their wisdom, the designers of this board placed Reconstructionism and Neopaganism in the same area. I would advise you against denouncing Wicca as a cult in this board! In fact, I'd advise you to learn a bit of toleration, but I'd be wasting my time: there are none so deaf as those who won't hear.

 

[Psyroucke]

Africans shipped as slaves to the Americas couldn't practice their traditional religion. In the USA they were forced to become Protestants, but in Latin America they were able to cloak their practices with sufficient Catholic trimmings for them to be acceptable. To call such practices "cults" as if they were Scientologists is offensive. Most of the African disapora religions were not created by cult leaders, but sprung up naturally. Umbanda Esoterica may have a founder, but the broader Umbanda certainly didn't.


In their wisdom, the designers of this board placed Reconstructionism and Neopaganism in the same area. I would advise you against denouncing Wicca as a cult in this board! In fact, I'd advise you to learn a bit of toleration, but I'd be wasting my time: there are none so deaf as those who won't hear.

You said what I was thinking about Umbanda as a whole but didn't say anything. Umbanda itself is a natural religion derived from ancestry and ancestral teachings. At least that was what my research on here and Google was pointing towards.

 

[LuisDantas]

For what it is worth, that is exactly what I hear about the matter here in Brazil.

Africans shipped as slaves to the Americas couldn't practice their traditional religion. (...) in Latin America they were able to cloak their practices with sufficient Catholic trimmings for them to be acceptable. To call such practices "cults" as if they were Scientologists is offensive. Most of the African disapora religions were not created by cult leaders, but sprung up naturally. Umbanda Esoterica may have a founder, but the broader Umbanda certainly didn't.

 

[Cassandra]

Africans shipped as slaves to the Americas couldn't practice their traditional religion. In the USA they were forced to become Protestants, but in Latin America they were able to cloak their practices with sufficient Catholic trimmings for them to be acceptable. To call such practices "cults" as if they were Scientologists is offensive. Most of the African disapora religions were not created by cult leaders, but sprung up naturally. Umbanda Esoterica may have a founder, but the broader Umbanda certainly didn't.


In their wisdom, the designers of this board placed Reconstructionism and Neopaganism in the same area. I would advise you against denouncing Wicca as a cult in this board! In fact, I'd advise you to learn a bit of toleration, but I'd be wasting my time: there are none so deaf as those who won't hear.

Please, stop these constant personal attacks, they are so ugly. Especially as you use underhanded straw man arguments (Scientology). I do not understand you are allowed to attack/debate my personal views in the Pagan DIR. There seems to be a double standard here. Contrary to your accusations, I have no interest in going into any debate with you. I just give a personal view and my objections to posting this Jesus and Mary cult here are purely technical. Maybe it is you that should learn a little more respect for ideas you do not share and stop calling people trolls because you do not like their ideas and react so furiously to them. I think you use that as a pretext to get my views removed.

 

[Psyroucke]

While I understand your point regarding the Pagan DIR I did not put this in the strictly Pagan DIR. There is a sub-DIR for that under this heading, and I deliberately kept if out of that one.

I put in the broad header category as this titling of Neopagan I felt fit the esoterica part of Umbanda. I suppose it could have gone under Questions maybe, but this is the only other one that fits. Umbanda itself (not looking at the various forms) is an ancestral, polytheistic religion.

 

[Cassandra]

Umbanda itself (not looking at the various forms) is an ancestral, polytheistic religion.

From what I read here it is no more polytheistic than Roman Catholicism. It is another syncretic monotheist sect mixing Roman Catholicism with African cults. Like other Abrahamist religions it is based on the revelations of a founder and it is based on one supreme heavenly God. In that respect is no different than Islam where Mohamed synthesized Arab religion with Juda-Christian religion to create his own monotheism based on his own revelations.

A religion that worships as Saints:
Oxalá (Syncretized as Jesus)
Iemanjá (Syncretized mainly as Our Lady of Navigators)
Xangô (Syncretized mainly as John the Baptist)
Oxúm (Syncretized mainly as Our Lady of Aparecida)
Ogúm (Syncretized as Saint George)
Oxóssi (Syncretized mainly as Saint Sebastian)
Ibeji (Syncretized as Saints Cosmas and Damian)
Omulu/Obaluayê (Syncretized mainly as Lazarus of Bethany)
Iansã (Syncretized as Saint Barbara)
Nanã (Syncretized as Saint Anne)
Oxumaré (Syncretized as Bartholomew the Apostle)
Exu (Syncretized mainly as Anthony of Padua)

My view:

I can not see this as genuine reconstruction of traditional Pagan religion. Unless you want to tell me Jesus, John the Baptist, Saint George etc are African ancestors. This a late syncretic religion. An African off-shoot of Abrahamism. More appropriate places would be the [Abrahamic Religions DIR] next to Rastafari movement or the [Syncretic Religions DIR] or the [Other Religious Movements and Practices DIR].

The thinking seems to be that if Abrahamism has some Pagan element it belongs in the Pagan DIR. No it does not. Christianity absorbed a lot of Pagan elements for the sake of conversion, but that does not make it a Pagan religion, nor have Christians regarded Christianity a Pagan religion.

We have to understand that Christianity diametrically opposes Polytheism. Catholic encyclopedia only recognizes two basic religions: (Abrahamic) Monotheism and Polytheism. And they are right. There is a fundamental difference between saying Gods/Angels are manifestations of a supreme heavenly God and having many Gods and Goddesses in Nature.

Nature religions like Science simply base on what is there in Nature. Abrahamic cults are based on philosophy/theology what was assumed to be in Heaven. They do not believe in Divine Natural Laws, but Moral laws ordained by a supreme God in heaven. Umbanda does that too.

If you want to give it the respect it deserves, put it in the Abrahamist DIR. Or are African offshoots of Abrahamist beliefs considered too primitive and inferior to be accepted there? Too me, It all sounds a bit discriminatory to put it in the Pagan DIR. If Rastafari can be there, this certainly can be there too.

 

[LuisDantas]

With all due respect, I must say that much of the point of Umbanda is that it is not Abrahamic. Or even monotheistic exactly.

 

[Psyroucke]

And once again I state that I didn't put it in the specific Pagan DIR but rather the broad heading that the Pagan DIR is under. I also approved a mod to move it if they wanted to Or felt this place was inappropriate. It has not been moved since Tuesday.

 

[Cassandra]

Funny that a Buddhist and a seeker are telling what belongs in the Pagan DIR, but what a Pagan thinks is irrelevant even if he has sound arguments they can not refute. Sadly, there is a constant creation of threads here by Christians who pose as Pagans or something else and want to bring in Jesus and monotheism in through the back door by redefining Paganism. Moderators allow them to do so.

I think I clearly made my point:
- It is not Polytheistic,
- it is revering biblical figures and Catholic Saints
- Jesus and Mary play a central role
- It worships a Supreme heavenly God.
- It is a revelation religion.
- It is a syncretic Abrahamic cult/sect
- it is not a Pagan tradition or reconstruction of one

It may not suffice all requirements of other Abrahamic religions, but then neither do they themselves in each other eyes. Is Haile Selassie Abrahamic and is he recognized as "the living God incarnate" by other Abramic religions? Is the Christian Trinity Monotheist in the eyes of Muslims and Jews?. And many American Protestants also see Catholicism as heresy. So nothing new there.

Give these people a break, put them in the [Abrahamic Religions DIR]. that will give them more protection against Abrahamic persecution than being marked as Pagan. Pagans are on the shooting list of all Abrahamic religions.

 

[Cassandra]

And once again I state that I didn't put it in the specific Pagan DIR but rather the broad heading that the Pagan DIR is under. I also approved a mod to move it if they wanted to Or felt this place was inappropriate. It has not been moved since Tuesday.

My dear, it is neither a Pagan tradition nor a reconstruction of an previously existing Pagan tradition. And that is the important criterion. It is an Abrahamic syncretic sect/cult with African elements.

Wicca with all its flaws is at least meant as reconstruction of ancient Pagan religion. But even with Wicca we have split between Christian Wicca and Pagan Wicca, as not all wicca is so Pagan.

You can not use the Pagan DIR, to dump whatever does not fit perfectly in other boxes. There are other boxes for that. It clearly does not belong here.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Sadly, there is a constant creation of threads here by Christians who pose as Pagans or something else and want to bring in Jesus and monotheism in through the back door by redefining Paganism.

Who are these people? Put up or shut up!

- It is not Polytheistic,
- It worships a Supreme heavenly God.

- They worship the orixas — Oxun, Xango, Ogum, etc — who are all Yoruba divinities. How much more polytheistic can you get?
- They acknowledge a supreme being. So what? So do all African pagans, as far as I know, and most native American pagans. So did Plotinus and the Emperor Julian. So did Confucius.

I'm sorry if you feel that I make personal attacks on you, but if you keep attacking everyone with whom you disagree, accusing people of being Christian propagandists, and talking about topics of which you know little, then I shall keep calling you out on it.