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Ultimate truth

Shadow Link

Active Member
As per your faith, describe what you and/or your faith considers to be the ultimate truth?
Ultimate truth = God

"It is a subject so vast, that all our thoughts are lost in its immensity; so deep, that our pride is drowned in its infinity. Other subjects we can compass and grapple with; in them we feel a kind of self-content, and go our way with the thought, "Behold I am wise." But when we come to this master-science, finding that our plumb-line cannot sound its depth, and that our eagle eye cannot see its height, we turn away with the thought, that vain man would be wise, but he is like a wild ***'s colt; and with the solemn exclamation, "I am but of yesterday, and know nothing." No subject of contemplation will tend more to humble the mind, than thoughts of God." ~ Spurgeon
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
You are wrong! Read this page. All forms of existence are within a state of dukkha because all are in samsara
Existence in the context that you are using it and in the source you provided are material existence.

If you require more evidence from a source that is not wikipedia to support my claim that Buddhism is not Nihilism then I refer you to verse 18 of the Pancagatidipani. It's in Pali. Verse 18 describes the burning hell that consumes a Nihilist. My translation comes from Penguin Classics: Buddhist scriptures 2004.

Verse 18 reads:

"
The nihilist who asserts that the dhamma is non-dhamma [this, that the truth is untruth] and whoever torments beings is consumed by fire in Patapana.
"
If you would like me to take a picture of the page let me know.

However, please do not read this reply and think that I believe that this is true. I am only sharing information and supporting my proposition that Buddhism is not Nihilism.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Existence in the context that you are using it and in the source you provided are material existence.

If you require more evidence from a source that is not wikipedia to support my claim that Buddhism is not Nihilism then I refer you to verse 18 of the Pancagatidipani. It's in Pali. Verse 18 describes the burning hell that consumes a Nihilist. My translation comes from Penguin Classics: Buddhist scriptures 2004.

Verse 18 reads:

"
The nihilist who asserts that the dhamma is non-dhamma [this, that the truth is untruth] and whoever torments beings is consumed by fire in Patapana.
"
If you would like me to take a picture of the page let me know.

However, please do not read this reply and think that I believe that this is true. I am only sharing information and supporting my proposition that Buddhism is not Nihilism.
Well, that's pretty easy to do. Just look at the first words of Buddha's first sermon after his awakening:


"There are these two extremes that are not to be indulged in by one who has gone forth. Which two? That which is devoted to sensual pleasure with reference to sensual objects: base, vulgar, common, ignoble, unprofitable; and that which is devoted to self-affliction: painful, ignoble, unprofitable. Avoiding both of these extremes, the middle way realized by the Tathagata — producing vision, producing knowledge — leads to calm, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding.

"And what is the middle way realized by the Tathagata that — producing vision, producing knowledge — leads to calm, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding? Precisely this Noble Eightfold Path: right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. This is the middle way realized by the Tathagata that — producing vision, producing knowledge — leads to calm, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding.​

So, are you producing direct knowledge and self awakening out of nothing at all?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Well, that's pretty easy to do.

I agree, I thought it was obvious too, but my knowledge is theoretical ( not based on Buddha's words or scripture ). Thank you for bringing those words to this discussion.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
How can I have been so blind? You guys were right all along. There is an ultimate truth and we are all on one path going in the same direction! Yes, we are all on a path leading us to nowhere. At least we can take some comfort knowing we are united in this one destiny
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
How can I have been so blind? You guys were right all along. There is an ultimate truth and we are all on one path going in the same direction! Yes, we are all on a path leading us to nowhere. At least we can take some comfort knowing we are united in this one destiny
Well... you got the 'united' part right. :D
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
An extension from another thread.
As per your faith, describe what you and/or your faith considers to be the ultimate truth?
There is no concept of supreme or ultimate truth in my ways of thinking. I had to do a lot of searching and asking questions, to try to find what people mean by that. Here’s what I see that it might mean to people who know what they mean by it:
- It might be a figure of speech, part of an allegorical way of saying that all the best possibilities are accessible to all people, and that we are all fellow travelers, even if we are following different religions, or no religion at all.
- It might be something that happens to people sometimes, that they sometimes describe as being at the end of a search for truth or happiness, or as freedom from some illusions about those. It’s some kind of transformation in a person that changes everything for them and opens them to a vast new world of possibilities, and which they see as an end to all their searching.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
An extension from another thread.
As per your faith, describe what you and/or your faith considers to be the ultimate truth?

Led by Shri Ramana, I have developed an understanding on 'ajAtivAda advaita', which roughly means No origination. According to ajAtivAda, the following is the ultimate truth:

Mandukya Karika 2.32
न निरोधो न चोत्पत्तिर्न बद्धो न च साधकः ।
न मुमुक्षुर्न वै मुक्त इत्येषा परमार्थता ॥ ३२ ॥

na nirodho na cotpattirna baddho na ca sādhakaḥ |
na mumukṣurna vai mukta ityeṣā paramārthatā || 32 ||

32. There is no dissolution, no birth, none in bondage, none aspiring for wisdom, no seeker of liberation and none liberated. This is the absolute truth.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Led by Shri Ramana, I have developed an understanding on 'ajAtivAda advaita', which roughly means No origination. According to ajAtivAda, the following is the ultimate truth:

Mandukya Karika 2.32
न निरोधो न चोत्पत्तिर्न बद्धो न च साधकः ।
न मुमुक्षुर्न वै मुक्त इत्येषा परमार्थता ॥ ३२ ॥

na nirodho na cotpattirna baddho na ca sādhakaḥ |
na mumukṣurna vai mukta ityeṣā paramārthatā || 32 ||

32. There is no dissolution, no birth, none in bondage, none aspiring for wisdom, no seeker of liberation and none liberated. This is the absolute truth.
No cake.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
True. No sexy thingy too. :) Enjoy this.



Nevertheless, cake or anything can be conjured. I believe "Ask and you get". The "ask" part is not often conscious -- that is the problem.
If we conjure up the cake then the cake is an illusion
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Anyone here still think all paths lead to the same 'ultimate truth'?
From what I see people saying who might know what they mean by it, they think, and I think, that everything it might mean to them is accessible to all people, even if they are following different religions. I would also say, even if they are not following any religion at all.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I'm sure some do. I think it would be more accurate to say that all paths lead to a path to 'ultimate truth.' :)

It's interesting ... the diversity. For quite a few, there is no ultimate truth in their belief system. So I ponder how a path can lead to something that doesn't exist? The edge of the earth, and you fall off?

Even though the diversity is incredibly evident, people who are heavily programmed stick to their guns ... all same, all same. But that's what happens when you think your belief is right and all others are wrong. Why am I not surprised?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
It's interesting ... the diversity. For quite a few, there is no ultimate truth in their belief system. So I ponder how a path can lead to something that doesn't exist? The edge of the earth, and you fall off?

In my experience, there are paths that lead to a dead end...i.e. no 'ultimate truth.' If it is truth one seeks, one can turn around and walk to a point where another path diverged and walk that one. Or once can just stand idle at the dead end and say, "I found the end, so this must have been the correct path."

Even though the diversity is incredibly evident, people who are heavily programmed stick to their guns ... all same, all same. But that's what happens when you think your belief is right and all others are wrong. Why am I not surprised?

Indeed. I've walked paths that I thought were right, only to find that the path I was walking simply led me to another path. :)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
How does it differ from let us say "Buddhism" since it is all about the obliteration of the reputed meaningful aspects of life?
In Buddhism, the skandhas (conditions) remain and appear in forms all the time. It is not obliteration but change. And even if it is to be obliteration, why are Abrahamics so afraid of it? Why is one life not enough? East does not fear it.

"Skandhas (Sanskrit) or khandhas (Pāḷi) means "heaps, aggregates, collections, groupings". In Buddhism, it refers to the five aggregates of clinging (Pancha-upadanakkhanda), the five bodily and mental factors that take part in the rise of craving and clinging. They are also explained as the five factors that constitute and explain a sentient being’s person and personality, but this is a later interpretation in response to sarvastivadin essentialism.

The five aggregates or heaps are: form (or matter or body) (rupa), sensations (or feelings, received from form - vedana), perceptions (samjna), mental activity or formations (sankhara), and consciousness (vijnana)."
Skandha - Wikipedia
 
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