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Ultimate truth

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
An extension from another thread.
As per your faith, describe what you and/or your faith considers to be the ultimate truth?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
An extension from another thread.
As per your faith, describe what you and/or your faith considers to be the ultimate truth?

That would depend on what you mean by ultimate truth. I'm not convinced that there is an ultimate truth as can be perceived in vyavaharika, at least not by the mind. In my view, ultimate truth resides in Paramartika.

But I suppose that there are those who will have a different perspective on what ultimate truth is for them.

For me, the ultimate truth is satcitananda. Existence-consciousness-bliss.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
An extension from another thread.
As per your faith, describe what you and/or your faith considers to be the ultimate truth?
Hah! I just posted a response to this question in the other thread about many paths. Ultimate truth is not a propositional truth, as that is dualistic and dualism divides the subject from the object. Ultimate Truth has to be able to embrace and perceive both without division in order for it to be Ultimate, or Absolute.

Therefore, it is something only a nondual realization can apprehend. If I had to make a propositional statement about "it", it is All That Is. Which, paradoxically, includes a dualistic reality of this and that statements. But rather than dividing, it embraces the Absolute and the Relative as One and Many. It is nothing that can be said. As the Tao Te Ching would say, "The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao."
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
There are 2 basic possibilities, for the existence of Absolute Truth.

1. There IS.. a single, inviolate, Absolute, objective Truth, regarding any question of mystery in the universe. (Or any question, period)
2. Everything is relative, truth is an illusion, and nothing can be known.

This has nothing to do with beliefs.. they are all over the place, in the human experience. This is about the ultimate, absolute, objective Truth.. that is true, whether anyone knows it, believes it, or not.

Nothing can be known, not even this.. ~Carneades

But even that is a dogmatic statement of fact.. or perceived fact.

Knowledge is either possible, or it is not. And who can claim ultimate authority to declare it, either way?

But in a world of knowledge and reason, there is an assumption of 'knowledge', being attainable.

Where all is but dream, reasoning and arguments are of no use, truth and knowledge nothing. ~John Locke

Basically, there are three possibilities, for the abstract mysteries of the universe:
1. Materialism.. the natural world is all there is
2. Mysticism/supernaturalism.. a metaphysical realm exists, and contributes to the human experience.
3. Absurdism... life, the universe, and everything is unreal, an illusion, and nothing can be known.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Not a concept found in my religion. If anything, my tradition teaches against such notions being relevant. Instead, the emphasis is placed on the fact that humans are limited beings that tell stories. These stories serve to relate us to the world and guide our behaviors in life. We only ever know reality through the stories that we tell - through life experiences that are then interpreted by our limited minds. Even if there is some "ultimate" behind that, we cannot know it and there is no point in seeking it. Traditions like mine instead focus on what stories one wishes to put into action in the world. Tell those stories, listen to those stories, and change the stories one cherishes as needed depending on one's goals.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
An extension from another thread.
As per your faith, describe what you and/or your faith considers to be the ultimate truth?

My approach to this currently is that the ultimate truth is that truth which connects an individual to his or her experience of the world in a way that brings a long lasting comfort to that person's existential thoughts and feelings. That truth/experience is only partially rational to the extent it answers an ultimate question or doubt of the knower. It is also as random, subjective and small as the knower is with respect to the Universe as a whole but also it makes little of the value-difference between the small knower and the big known. Within this framework <insert your personal story here>.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
Not a concept found in my religion. If anything, my tradition teaches against such notions being relevant. Instead, the emphasis is placed on the fact that humans are limited beings that tell stories. These stories serve to relate us to the world and guide our behaviors in life. We only ever know reality through the stories that we tell - through life experiences that are then interpreted by our limited minds. Even if there is some "ultimate" behind that, we cannot know it and there is no point in seeking it. Traditions like mine instead focus on what stories one wishes to put into action in the world. Tell those stories, listen to those stories, and change the stories one cherishes as needed depending on one's goals.
There are, indeed, cultural differences that reveal different thinking backgrounds.

I'm reminded, years ago, when i was involved with an international ministry. Germans complained that the Malaysians were not prompt, precise, and were inconsiderate of other's time, if an appointment or task was assigned. The Malaysians complained the Germans were rude, brusque, and legalistic. Both wondered how the other could be, 'Christian!', from their own cultural perspective.

It is something that experience, circumspection, and perspective can bring.. going beyond one's own limited sight, and pursuing Understanding.

I see that very little, in the public discourse.

For those who reflect on themselves, everything they encounter is medicine. For those who attack others, every thought is a weapon. One is the way to initiate all good, one is the way to deepen all evil. They are as far apart as sky and earth. ~Lao Tzu
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
It's make believe. We live in a universe that is constantly in flux and you are going to try some sort of ultimate truth in it? Good luck with that.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
It's make believe. We live in a universe that is constantly in flux and you are going to try some sort of ultimate truth in it? Good luck with that.
It's a difference in philosophy.. Eastern mysticism vs western empiricism. There can be hybrids, and most people are. There are some who claim to be all one or the other.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
It's a difference in philosophy.. Eastern mysticism vs western empiricism. There can be hybrids, and most people are. There are some who claim to be all one or the other.

One of those is pure speculation and based on unreliable subjective experiences that have no basis in reality
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Ultimate Truth has to be able to embrace and perceive both without division in order for it to be Ultimate, or Absolute.
Ultimate truth is non-duality. Since there is no other, the ultimate truth has no duality to embrace.
"Eko sad, dwiteeyo nasti; nasti, nasti, na nasti kincana." (What exist is one, there is no second. No, no, no, not in the least.)
It all started with a bundle of energy as big as a football.
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I don't have a faith; but, I like what @syo said: "We are all united". I cannot think of any belief system that does not lead to this conclusion.

Is it a universal truth? Yes, I think it is.

Edit: excluding nihilism...
Edit-Edit: according to wikipedia nihilism is a denial of belief, so... it excludes itself...
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
I don't have a faith; but, I like what @syo said: "We are all united". I cannot think of any belief system that does not lead to this conclusion.

Is it a universal truth? Yes, I think it is.

Edit: excluding nihilism...
Edit-Edit: according to wikipedia nihilism is a denial of belief, so... it excludes itself...
What the difference between nihilism and those claiming "ultimate truth"?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
What the difference between nihilism and those claiming "ultimate truth"?
Per wikipedia:

Nihilism is the philosophical viewpoint that suggests the denial of, or lack of belief in, the reputedly meaningful aspects of life.

Nihilism - Wikipedia

Emphasis on: "meaningful aspects".

Belief in the existence of an "Ultimate Truth" requires a belief in "meaningful aspects".

Denying meaningful aspects, also denies the existence of an ultimate truth?

I propose that the denial of "meaningful aspects of life" to a nihilist would not be described as an "ultimate" truth. it would be described as "meh".
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Per wikipedia:

Nihilism is the philosophical viewpoint that suggests the denial of, or lack of belief in, the reputedly meaningful aspects of life.

Nihilism - Wikipedia

Emphasis on: "meaningful aspects".

Belief in the existence of an "Ultimate Truth" requires a belief in "meaningful aspects".

Denying meaningful aspects, also denies the existence of an ultimate truth?

I propose that the denial of "meaningful aspects of life" to a nihilist would not be described as an "ultimate" truth. it would be described as "meh".
How does it differ from let us say "Buddhism" since it is all about the obliteration of the reputed meaningful aspects of life?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Ultimate truth is non-duality. Since there is no other, the ultimate truth has no duality to embrace.
"Eko sad, dwiteeyo nasti; nasti, nasti, na nasti kincana." (What exist is one, there is no second. No, no, no, not in the least.)
It all started with a bundle of energy as big as a football.
Everything is "ultimately" equal and the same?
 
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