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UK: Second National Lock-down Expected within the Week

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Laika, Oct 31, 2020.

  1. Laika

    Laika Well-Known Member
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    And Here we go again...

    Boris Johnson has bowed to pressure from his scientific advisers for new national lockdown restrictions, which are expected to be announced early next week, the Guardian has been told.

    Sir Patrick Vallance and Prof Chris Whitty, who head the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), are understood to have warned the prime minister that the time has come for national action across England. Sage scientists presented Johnson with evidence at a meeting in Downing Street, where they explained that Covid-19 is spreading significantly faster than their worst-case scenarios.

    The scientists, who are supported by the health secretary, Matt Hancock, and Michael Gove, are understood to have argued that local measures are no longer enough and that the virus could kill 85,000 people this winter. Sage’s proposals for a two-week “circuit breaker” over half-term were turned down by ministers. It is now thought something longer will be needed.

    However, the exact extent of the new lockdown restrictions have yet to be decided. That will be thrashed out this weekend as Johnson and the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, try to work out what can be imposed across England without major damage to the economy.


    For the Full Article from the Guardian: National Covid lockdown expected across England next week

    Do you think a Second National Lockdown is the right decision? Is it long over-due or a disproportionate response to the thread posed by Coronavirus in the UK?
     
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  2. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    It's probably a good idea to listen to the people who are most likely to know, as opposed to the people who are most likely biased by profit and politics.
     
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  3. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    How is life in the prison camp? Is it going well?

    My condolences. If lock down has ANY chance of working anywhere it would already have done so and we'd not have this conversation. :D
     
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  4. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Only 6-weeks later than their own Sage committee recommended.
    Do these idiots never learn; it is ostrich government.
     
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  5. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    The last full lockdown was incredibly irritating and inconvenient. I live in a flat with a dog so the outdoor exercise limit was a nightmare as I don't have an enclosed garden for her to run around. I really don't want a second lockdown.

    However, it's worth keeping this in mind:

    This puts my inconvenience and irritation into perspective. I may not want a second lockdown but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. The lives of other people outweigh my desire go for walks.
     
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  6. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    The answer is to follow the scientific advice and avoid being sucked into politics or the false dichotomy between health and the economy. There are countries that have minimised the impacts of coronavirus much better than others. Follow their example.
     
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  7. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Overdue. He should have had the circuit breaker over half term, as he was advised to do. It's a repeat of last time. Bozo and his team of Brexitty deadbeats still haven't taken in that they are dealing with an exponential rather than a linear phenomenon. At this late stage even a lockdown won't be enough to get the caseload down to the point at which Lady TalkTalk's test'n'trace system can be effective. So they've blown billions on that for nothing. And now they are blowing billions more on Operation Bullsh(o)t or Moonshine or whatever it is and that won't work either at these levels of disease.

    What I am not clear about, though, is how they are estimating the deaths. There is good evidence that we have learnt how to treat very ill patients better, halving the death rate. That is one bright spot.

    But the problem is the numbers needing to go to hospital are not reduced by this, so the crunch point remains, as it was last time, the load on hospital ICUs and on health service staff.
     
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  8. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    I'm confident my government is doing the right thing at the right time. The people who say Johnson is a lazy, incompetent, reckless drunk are just mean-spirited.

    Eat Out To Help Out was another good idea; apparently responsible for about 20% of the surge in cases.
     
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  9. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Eat Out to Spread Covid About. :rolleyes:

    Though, to be fair, this was a well-intentioned effort to revive the damage to the economy and it is only with hindsight that we can see what it did to the epidemic. I'm afraid we are having to try a lots of things by trial and error and there will be failures.

    One thing everyone seems agreed on is that schools need to stay open this time round:

    1) the evidence is that with suitable countermeasures there is little transmission via schools.

    2) It is very damaging for the children not to go to school

    3) It destroys the ability of earners in the household to work.

    Universities may be a different story: the surge in cases seem to have coincided with the mass migration of students at the start of the university term.
     
    #9 exchemist, Oct 31, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  10. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    I agree. Pubs need to shut for certain.
     
  11. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
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    Sad, especially for the working people being screwed over by all this. Wouldn't be surprised if the UK sees its own civil unrest. You can't just keep putting people out of work with no way to make ends meet and expect them to be happy.
     
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  12. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    We should vote out anyone who supports this nonsense anymore. It's cruel and unusual punishment at this point. If the rich and the politicians want to hide in their homes all day because they're cowards let 'em. The rest of us got bills to pay and no one is giving us a covid deferment until you know the end of time... So...
     
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  13. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    It worked. People just stopped paying attention and tried to go back to business as usual chanting me me me I don't care about you but I demand to do whatever I selfishly want to do.

    We're seeing the same thing in the US where we have people denying that people are dying and suffering at the top of our government down to celebrating sickness, suffering, disease and death (for others of course) rather than wear a ****ing mask, distancing and washing their hands.
     
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  14. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Did they though? As I recall, people still kept their social distancing/cleaning/and masks up. That's a far cry from business as usual. That's continued even with the easements in my home state -- I am sure that's no different than anywhere else. BTW, I feel all of those things are reasonable precautions.

    The sickness is in the minds of people who think you can lock down forever without literally murdering people. That's not true and the death rates from COVID are nothing near what a deadly endemic is. We have had illnesses that have killed 40%+ of anyone who got them, and covid is at something like 0.011% in 100,000 or about 11. Most of those are a particularly vulnerable population who will pass from anything from a flu to a common cold, so even if COVID didn't exist they are likely in the same danger. Of course, that presumes a worst case scenario where our treatment doesn't improve and it will (and already has)... In reality, over time it's going to be much lower.
     
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  15. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    It's strange and sad how many people think the economy is some sort of divine being that MUST BE OBEYED even at the cost of our lives. Organized, idolized, and systematized greed has now so deeply twisted our hearts and minds that even human life, itself, has become a lesser consideration. THE SACRED MONEY PUMP MUST CONTINUE! THE SACRED MONEY PUMP MUST CONTINUE! THE SACRED MONEY PUMP MUST CONTINUE! ...
     
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  16. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Yes unemployment will rise dramatically. And our cities may need to re-invent themselves, as the centres are starved of business.

    But unfortunately, the alternative is the collapse of health care in the country, leading to a widespread terror of getting ill - for any reason, be it covid or cancer - as you know the hospitals cannot treat you. The economic damage from that would be greater still.

    There is no easy solution.

    There may be some riots. But in the UK we do have a welfare state. Unemployed people are not left to starve. I'm not saying it's great, because it most definitely is not, but there is a social safety net. The damage will be mainly felt in certain areas of the economy: city centre retail, the hospitality industry and the airlines. The rest will keep running.
     
  17. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
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    We're not living in a socialist paradise. Most people have to work to pay bills, get food and keep a roof over their heads. The government isn't providing those people much of an income to survive. That's just reality.
     
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  18. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Time to reform the government, then, don't you think? But no. Instead, we're all just bowing to it's inevitable corruption and uselessness, as if it were the right hand of God (the god of commerce).

    Here in the U.S. the government just threw billions of dollars at their wealthy corporate cronies in covid relief while they continue to ignore the needs of the citizens. So it's not that the help isn't there. It's that these wealthy elites control the government so fully that they can swallow up any and all relief money before it ever gets to the citizenry. And yet, instead of being outraged by this, the public just bows and cow-tows to the greed and corruption, and endeavors to loyally serve the master's money pump until they die.

    What the hell is wrong with us??? Why do we bow to this greed machine; that clearly doesn't care whether we live or die, as if it were God, itself?
     
  19. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
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    Maybe one day there will be a revolution but we have to deal with reality as it is now, not as we'd ideally like it to be. Getting mad at people over a system they largely inherited isn't very productive.
     
  20. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    But you can, of course, vote. That may be a start.
     
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