UK Elections

[Altfish]

So do you know which of our old trading partners is going to give up a market of 700 million potential customers on favour of 65 million?

..or why the EU would give us a 'good deal' when we are leaving the club and taking our contribution away.
If they give us an average deal we'll have done well (Of course Johnson will sell whatever deal he gets as being 'good for the country')

 

[ChristineM]

..or why the EU would give us a 'good deal' when we are leaving the club and taking our contribution away.
If they give us an average deal we'll have done well (Of course Johnson will sell whatever deal he gets as being 'good for the country')

Depends how BJ pulls the plug,. A trade deal will take some time, measured in years as opposed to BJs sales pitch of months. So he could take his ball home and shout no deal. Then the fat will hit the shin for the UK. On the other hand, if the UK pursues BJs brexit deal (which incidentally is worse for the uk uk than Mays) and it is accepted by the EU then a trade deal is on the cards.

I hope for the sake of the UK that buffoon boris does not have a tantrum

 

[ratiocinator]

Depends how BJ pulls the plug,. A trade deal will take some time, measured in years as opposed to BJs sales pitch of months. So he could take his ball home and shout no deal. Then the fat will hit the shin for the UK. On the other hand, if the UK pursues BJs brexit deal (which incidentally is worse for the uk uk than Mays) and it is accepted by the EU then a trade deal is on the cards.

I hope for the sake of the UK that buffoon boris does not have a tantrum

Yes, it's very difficult to know what he'll do now he has a large majority and so doesn't have to please the ERG or DUP. Since he appears to have no morals, is a self-serving barefaced liar, and clearly doesn't care about breaking promises, I guess he'll do whatever he thinks will do him the most good...

 

[Brickjectivity]

What's right with a federal state?,we would really be powerless as part of that,whats obvious to anyone is the way the eu are heading in that direction,I doubt its members will get a say in it because its gradual.

Powerless so what. The EU wouldn't do you wrong, man. Its like Walmart or Amazon, but its a state. Think about the money and the savings.

 

[ratiocinator]

What's right with a federal state?

All the current advantages of the EU but better organised and being a significant force in the world.

...we would really be powerless as part of that...

States aren't powerless within a federal state - what powers they have depend on the constitution. I'm sure Scotland feels powerless within the UK at the moment, so should it be separate? What about London, Yorkshire, or Birmingham? Why is the UK the entity that should have this "power" that you speak of?

It was academic anyway because, as I said, Cameron had negotiated an opt-out. In other words, the EU were going to amend the relevant treaties to make it all but impossible for the whole EU to become a federal state.

 

[England my lionheart]

Powerless so what. The EU wouldn't do you wrong, man. Its like Walmart or Amazon, but its a state. Think about the money and the savings.

Amazon doesn't leak money, we are thinking about the money and savings, thats one of the reasons for leaving.

 

[ratiocinator]

Amazon doesn't leak money, we are thinking about the money and savings, thats one of the reasons for leaving.

There are no savings. Every serious analysis has us having less money as a result of Brexit, not more.

 

[England my lionheart]

All the current advantages of the EU but better organised and being a significant force in the world.

I think most of Europe has already tried the significant force part.
I think as part of the brexit deal we should allow all those in Britain who wish to be part of the eu to go and live in Europe.



States aren't powerless within a federal state - what powers they have depend on the constitution. I'm sure Scotland feels powerless within the UK at the moment, so should it be separate? What about London, Yorkshire, or Birmingham? Why is the UK the entity that should have this "power" that you speak of?

Read it in our history but as far as our union goes I would have no problem with Scotland Wales or Northern Ireland leaving, I don't believe they would survive on their own though.
As for the federal state part, I haven't seen a good working model yet.

It was academic anyway because, as I said, Cameron had negotiated an opt-out. In other words, the EU were going to amend the relevant treaties to make it all but impossible for the whole EU to become a federal state.

Your right it's all academic now because they can now put their treaties where the sun dont shine.

 

[England my lionheart]

So do you know which of our old trading partners is going to give up a market of 700 million potential customers on favour of 65 million?

I'm sure the potentials out there madame for as many as we like.

 

[England my lionheart]

There are no savings. Every serious analysis has us having less money as a result of Brexit, not more.

Yeah and every serious analyst said we would be in crisis the day after the referendum, over 3 years of being wrong.

 

[ChristineM]

I'm sure the potentials out there madame for as many as we like.

So no answer then, fair enough

 

[ChristineM]

Yeah and every serious analyst said we would be in crisis the day after the referendum, over 3 years of being wrong.

Not at all wrong, health service in crisis, farming in crises, sharp rise in xenophobic crime, government in turmoil with no clue what to do, major industry and banking leaving the UK, stockpiling food and medicine. Not bad for no crisis

 

[England my lionheart]

Not at all wrong, health service in crisis, farming in crises, sharp rise in xenophobic crime, government in turmoil with no clue what to do, major industry and banking leaving the UK, stockpiling food and medicine. Not bad for no crisis

There are problems but hardly a crisis,I think remainers need to let go the scaremongering now and help the healing, it's time to move forward.
The eu will be gone in 10 years, even issing the architect of the euro said that.

 

[ratiocinator]

So, despite the "get Brexit done" lie, we now have more uncertainty though next year and another no-deal cliff edge for next Christmas.

Bill to block further delay to Brexit process

Either that or Boris the Liar is just planning to give in to anything the EU wants and lie to everybody that he's got a great new deal, just like he did with the withdrawal agreement.

 

[Shad]

I was making a point about how undemocratic our electoral system actually is

That isn't how the system works. If the parties didn't consolidate that is their problem not the system itself. You have no valid criticism about the system in your posts. More so you are assuming people only voted for a single issue at the platform level not the individual level.

 

[ratiocinator]

That isn't how the system works. If the parties didn't consolidate that is their problem not the system itself. You have no valid criticism about the system in your posts. More so you are assuming people only voted for a single issue at the platform level not the individual level.

The problem with the system, which I pointed out in my original post on the subject #91, is that a party can get a thumping majority from a minority of the popular vote and they are more likely to do that if their support is geographically localised.

This is a general point and this election isn't the worst example of it by a long way.

The point about Brexit was because, in this election, it was one of the dominant issues and the voting pattern actually confirmed the opinion polls regarding what the public now think about it: a small but significant majority for remain.

As a result of lies, broken election law (in the referendum), and the electoral system, the UK will now be taken in a direction that the majority disagree with, with significant and long term consequences.

 

[ChristineM]

There are problems but hardly a crisis,I think remainers need to let go the scaremongering now and help the healing, it's time to move forward.
The eu will be gone in 10 years, even issing the architect of the euro said that.

Sheesh... Really? Have you spoken to any nhs staff? Have you checked the number of European health workers leaving the country, have you seen the desperate nhs adverts for staff, urgently, remember it takes a minimum of 2 years to train a nurse. And not many Brits want to work under the conditions imposed by cut backs and low wages.

Shall i talk about the farming crises with fruit and veg left unharvested because low paid foreign workers have left the uk?

Wishful thinking is not moving forward.

 

[England my lionheart]

Sheesh... Really? Have you spoken to any nhs staff? Have you checked the number of European health workers leaving the country, have you seen the desperate nhs adverts for staff, urgently, remember it takes a minimum of 2 years to train a nurse. And not many Brits want to work under the conditions imposed by cut backs and low wages.

Shall i talk about the farming crises with fruit and veg left unharvested because low paid foreign workers have left the uk?

Wishful thinking is not moving forward.

We'll I for one do not condone exploiting slave labour, unemployment is at its lowest level for years.

Yes it does take time to train nurses, in fact foreign nurses have to be trained in NHS procedures, I know this because I know many nurses personally, Europe isn't the only place where we can get nurses so it'll level out eventually.

 

[LuisDantas]

..or why the EU would give us a 'good deal' when we are leaving the club and taking our contribution away.
If they give us an average deal we'll have done well (Of course Johnson will sell whatever deal he gets as being 'good for the country')

He is more likely to blame the EU for being "unreasonable".

Remember, it was not long ago that he invited the Republic of Ireland to "temporarily" act as a surrogate for the UK against the EU.

 

[LuisDantas]

Amazon doesn't leak money, we are thinking about the money and savings, thats one of the reasons for leaving.

Quite a narrative.

Best of luck with the next ten years or so.