UFO/ET phenomenon

[Parsimony]

Here you go: Kryptid's deviantART Gallery and Kryptid's deviantART Gallery

 

[apophenia]

OK. So you have a technical issue. Maybe your browser. I will show you a screenshot of mine, when I sus the best way to do that on my very new Windows 8 laptop.

Does your own page display that way to you as well ?

What happens if you click on the 'Send Message' rollover ? You should be able to send a message that way.

Maybe you should create a thread and see who has a clue. I don't get it myself. Not yet anyway.

 

[apophenia]

I just sent you a PM with a link to my screenshot.

 

[Parsimony]

Okay, now that we've taken the discussion to PMs, I would say that the mods can feel free to delete our off-topic posts in this thread if they wish to do so.

As to the point earlier about coming to "hasty conclusions" regarding the identity of UFOs, I would say that there are many alternative theories about what UFOs are if they are, in fact, something extraordinary:

Time-traveling Humans - Descendents of modern humans from the distant future manage to figure out how to travel into the past and decide to visit us from time to time using their (by then) far superior technology. This could explain why aliens are often said to look very similar to humans.

Ultraterrestials - Entities from parallel universes have their own kinds of technology that allows them to access our Universe. This may explain why some UFOs are said to disappear without explanation (they may be travelling out of our reality).

Spiritual Entities - I have seen it suggested by some Christians that UFOs and aliens are actually demons "in disguise" (some Muslims share this belief but replace demons with djinni). Some have even claimed to be able to halt abduction attempts by invoking the name of Christ or Allah. Even if they are not demons or djinni, they could be some other form of spirit. This may explain why aliens and UFOs don't leave behind physical evidence.

Ancient Advanced Civilizations - The people of Atlantis (assuming it ever existed) may not have been completely destroyed by disaster. Over the centuries, the hidden survivors of Atlantis used their advanced knowledge to develop technologies such as antigravity, teleportation, tractor beams, or whatever fun sci-fi stuff you want to speculate about. This then allows them to build and fly what we today call UFOs.

Advanced Government Projects - There may have been break-throughs in top secret technology that have allowed one or more governments of the world to build UFOs. Alien abductions and cattle mutilations are used as a cover so that the public won't know the truth. I do find it interesting that a laser-based technology has been revealed that allows glowing balls of plasma to be generated in the sky and controlled at will. Probably wouldn't be too hard to simulate at least some UFOs sightings with this kind of tech.

Super Duper Nazis - Pretty much the same as the previous one, except some secret, high-tech group from Nazi Germany are the culprits instead of the U.S. Government.

Non-human Earthly Intelligences - Perhaps some lineage of dinosaurs managed to evolve enough smarts to develop technology and was able to use that tech to survive the Creataceous extinction event. Since then, they formed subterranean, submarine, lunar or martian colonies where they hide from us while studying us at the same time. Some aliens are said to look reptillian, so maybe we've got super-dinos abducting us.

Psychic Manifestations - The collective subconscious of humanity manifests itself as apparitions that change over time to reflect the changing beliefs of individuals and cultures (what was once elves, fairies and leprechauns has since evolved into UFOs and aliens). UFOs and aliens are basically mental projections which can affect reality (this is somewhat similar to the Tibetan concept of the Tulpa).

Interferences with a Simulated Reality - We actually live inside of a giant computer simulation (think the Matrix) and the programmers like to mess with us every now and then by throwing us the odd UFO, sasquatch, haunting, etc. Doesn't strictly have to be a computer simulation. Could be some other form of simulation for which we have no real metaphors or understanding. I have actually known someone who believes that we live in a simulated reality because of his dealings with a place called Skinwalker Ranch (a location in the Uintah Basin which reportedly has a massive plethora of paranormal activity, including UFOs, cattle mutilations, portals, poltergeists and a lot more).

Even though none of these scenarios seems particularly compelling, I'd say that at least some of them have a fair chance at competing with the idea that we are being visited by flesh-and-blood aliens in physical spacecraft from a planet light-years away. We would also need some method of testing between these different theories to see which one holds the most water. This is another reason that I think it is a "hasty conclusion" to believe that we are being visited by aliens; there are too many other possibilities for us to know that with any certainty.

 

[ResistETIntervention]

Time-traveling Humans - Descendents of modern humans from the distant future manage to figure out how to travel into the past and decide to visit us from time to time using their (by then) far superior technology. This could explain why aliens are often said to look very similar to humans.

Time traveling is impossible and only in human imagination. In fact, traveling at superluminal speeds apparently does not require warping of space-time fabric or wormholes, both of which are also science-fiction stemmed from human imagination. In reality, extraterrestrials have attained technology to travel very, very fast, which seems incredible only to those who have not acquired such technology. Human beings’ rockets would seem impossible to cavemen whose walking/running speeds are exceedingly low in comparison to the speed of rockets.

Ultraterrestials - Entities from parallel universes have their own kinds of technology that allows them to access our Universe. This may explain why some UFOs are said to disappear without explanation (they may be travelling out of our reality).

Extraterrestrials with their advanced technology may seem quite superior, inter-dimensional, or even mysterious. They have exploited human beings’ imagination and conjectures about them and portrayed themselves as such as well. Yet, they are merely physical beings requiring resources to survive. What gives them advantages over the human race is not really their technology which merely helps them to travel very, very fast and enables them to hide their spaceships easily. The real advantage these ETs have over the human beings is their mental abilities to manipulate others’ thoughts. Thus, such are the abilities human beings need to cultivate in order to protect themselves from the ETs’ manipulation in the mental environment.

Spiritual Entities - I have seen it suggested by some Christians that UFOs and aliens are actually demons "in disguise" (some Muslims share this belief but replace demons with djinni). Some have even claimed to be able to halt abduction attempts by invoking the name of Christ or Allah. Even if they are not demons or djinni, they could be some other form of spirit. This may explain why aliens and UFOs don't leave behind physical evidence.

Those religious believers in whose minds the existence of extraterrestrials somehow seems to contradict their beliefs might attempt to explain the phenomenon as having to do with negative spiritual forces. Yet, again, these extraterrestrials that require physical vehicles to travel are physical beings that require physical resources to survive. They are not guided by Knowledge, the Holy Spirit within them, or they would not be here making unethical contacts and exploiting the human race through manipulations, deceptions, and persuasions with inducements. They are physical beings the way human beings are.

Aliens and UFOs do, in fact, leave physical evidence behind as I have explained to you in another thread: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3602721-post46.html

 

[ResistETIntervention]

Ancient Advanced Civilizations - The people of Atlantis (assuming it ever existed) may not have been completely destroyed by disaster. Over the centuries, the hidden survivors of Atlantis used their advanced knowledge to develop technologies such as antigravity, teleportation, tractor beams, or whatever fun sci-fi stuff you want to speculate about. This then allows them to build and fly what we today call UFOs.

Where would these Atlantis people that you speak of be living now? Ancient advanced civilization such as those that had pyramidal structures or other structures that modern human beings with more advanced technology are still incapable of building were actually established by extraterrestrials that had made earlier unsuccessful attempts to colonize human beings. Note that the “gods” that the people of such civilizations worshipped demanded human sacrifices and blood, the same biological resources that extraterrestrials attempt to acquire by abducting people now. Any ancient advanced civilization that fell did so because extraterrestrials abandoned the civilizations.

Advanced Government Projects - There may have been break-throughs in top secret technology that have allowed one or more governments of the world to build UFOs. Alien abductions and cattle mutilations are used as a cover so that the public won't know the truth. I do find it interesting that a laser-based technology has been revealed that allows glowing balls of plasma to be generated in the sky and controlled at will. Probably wouldn't be too hard to simulate at least some UFOs sightings with this kind of tech.

Currently, possibly through reverse-engineering from the crashed extraterrestrial spaceships or trinket space technology human individuals gained who fell under the persuasion of extraterrestrials, certain extraterrestrial technology may have been stolen, copied, or acquired by human beings. Yet, such technology would have been impossible a few decades ago when the most advanced nations such as the United States of America and Russia were barely able to manufacture rudimentary airplanes with the supersonic technology yet to be developed, let alone objects that can travel at superluminal speeds. At such time, air force officers from such nations had sighted UFOs up close within a few yards, which they described as aerial vehicles that were not manufactured via human technology. Of all people, air force officers would be able to recognize any superior vehicles that the governments or air force attempted to cover up, as they were trained to recognize all man-made aerial vehicles. Regardless, this does not explain the abduction phenomenon.

Super Duper Nazis - Pretty much the same as the previous one, except some secret, high-tech group from Nazi Germany are the culprits instead of the U.S. Government.

Do you think a small group of Germans somehow created advanced technology to fly at superluminal speeds, while the rest of the world had airplanes that couldn’t even fly at supersonic speeds? Too much confidence in Nazis or too little confidence in other technologically advanced nations there.

Non-human Earthly Intelligences - Perhaps some lineage of dinosaurs managed to evolve enough smarts to develop technology and was able to use that tech to survive the Creataceous extinction event. Since then, they formed subterranean, submarine, lunar or martian colonies where they hide from us while studying us at the same time. Some aliens are said to look reptillian, so maybe we've got super-dinos abducting us.

Too much imagination and too many maybe’s. Dinosaurs became extinct long before their intelligence reached any level worth speaking of. Some scientists have attributed sudden climate change, their enormous sizes which led to lack of food due to their rapid consumptions, extensive wildfire, etc. as possible causes for their extinction, though I wouldn’t discount other possibilities executed by forces from outer space. You believe that dinosaurs all flew to the Moon or Mars? Dug deep into the ground and survived on what? Scuba dived into the ocean? Wild imagination will only take you further away from the reality.

Human beings are the native intelligent beings of the planet and of the solar system. Though some of the extraterrestrial beings attempt to present themselves as natives of the planet, ancestors of human beings, brothers from outer space, friends from outer space, saviors, angelic beings, avatars, demonic beings, etc., in their endeavor to garner affection or provoke fear in order to gain human allegiance, the ETs are none of the above. They are merely space-traveling resource seekers that are here to exploit human weaknesses and even strengths in order to weaken and divide the human race to conquer the world covertly.

Psychic Manifestations - The collective subconscious of humanity manifests itself as apparitions that change over time to reflect the changing beliefs of individuals and cultures (what was once elves, fairies and leprechauns has since evolved into UFOs and aliens). UFOs and aliens are basically mental projections which can affect reality (this is somewhat similar to the Tibetan concept of the Tulpa).

I had never heard of, read about, or seen in any media the types of UFOs I sighted, before I sighted them. If the phenomenon was merely psychic manifestations, then the accounts of abductees’ stories should vary as widely as human imagination would take them. Yet, according to Dr. David Jacobs, their testimonies on abduction experiences evidently are too similar from abductees to abductees. Some of the researchers (Bud Hopkins, Karla Turner, David Jacobs, etc.) came to the conclusion that the extraterrestrial abductors must be carrying out some sort of sinister program with a specific agenda and goal on their minds. They feel that the extraterrestrials are attempting to integrate into the human societies through the human-alien hybrids they have been creating. They came to the correct conclusion.

Interferences with a Simulated Reality - We actually live inside of a giant computer simulation (think the Matrix) and the programmers like to mess with us every now and then by throwing us the odd UFO, sasquatch, haunting, etc. Doesn't strictly have to be a computer simulation. Could be some other form of simulation for which we have no real metaphors or understanding. I have actually known someone who believes that we live in a simulated reality because of his dealings with a place called Skinwalker Ranch (a location in the Uintah Basin which reportedly has a massive plethora of paranormal activity, including UFOs, cattle mutilations, portals, poltergeists and a lot more).

Again too much imagination from watching too many movies. People tend to attempt to find explanations to comfort themselves when faced with phenomenon that cannot be explained away, that they are fearful of. What is the reason that he (she?) believes that we live in a simulated reality? What supports his reasoning? Is it possible for him to muster up courage to see the reality as is? Human beings are dealing with intelligent beings from outer space, unbeknownst to many perhaps, that have the capabilities to project images through technology, control or manipulate people’s perceptions and thoughts (even from a distance). The activities they have been carrying out are real. People have been abducted against their will and some sinister procedures have been performed upon them against their will. Even those who believe that they had “pleasant” or neutral abduction experiences do not recall their abduction experiences in their entirety which must be delved into in order for them to retrieve the memory of the entire, true experiences they had that have been suppressed.

 

[ResistETIntervention]

Even though none of these scenarios seems particularly compelling, I'd say that at least some of them have a fair chance at competing with the idea that we are being visited by flesh-and-blood aliens in physical spacecraft from a planet light-years away. We would also need some method of testing between these different theories to see which one holds the most water. This is another reason that I think it is a "hasty conclusion" to believe that we are being visited by aliens; there are too many other possibilities for us to know that with any certainty.

You’re correct on that one: none of the scenarios above seem particularly compelling. It is not, however, a “hasty conclusion” to state that the world is being “visited” by extraterrestrials. Consider all the outrageous, albeit imaginative, “theories” that you came up with merely to contradict inescapable truth of the reality.

Are you finding it difficult to believe in their technology enabling them to travel at superluminal speeds?

Consider one of the UFOs I sighted, which was a big, extremely bright light in the clear blue sky and completely stationary for at least a few seconds while I looked at it. Then, within a second or so, it sped away leaving a trail of white light which tapered off towards a spot where it just ‘poof’ disappeared. Anyone with a little bit of physics background could tell you that is what one would expect to see if an object attained a superluminal speed. It accelerated to a superluminal speed from zero within a second.

During abduction events, abductees are missing from their normal environments. Police have been called, search parties have been sent out, parents have frantically searched for their children, etc. When people remember abductions, they sometimes return with marks on their bodies – not just any marks, but with seemingly impossible fully formed scars. They sometimes return with broken bones and they have no idea how they happened. Sometimes people return with unusual stains on their clothes that were not there before the abduction. Attempts to discover the nature of these stains have been unsuccessful. They return with their clothes on backwards, and/or inside out. They return wearing someone else’s clothes. When people are abducted, they are often abducted with others who can confirm the details of their abduction, as with Barney and Betty Hill. Often it is family members, but there are instances when friends or bystanders witness the abduction as well. People are abducted while fully awake, driving a car, gardening, and so forth. (by Dr. David Jacobs http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/DavidJacobs.htm )

As difficult as it may be, the entire human race must face this reality with objectivity and sobriety in order to take the correct actions to thwart the Extraterrestrial Intervention. Its future depends on what sort of actions it takes collectively. It could either choose to remain acquiescent and lose its freedom and self-determination to foreign races from outer space, or it could determine to unite and secure the solar system as its sphere of influence and declare its sovereignty to maintain its freedom and self-determination. http://humansovereignty.org/

If we lose our freedom and self-determination, the human civilization as we know it will be over. We’ll lose all that we have established, created, uphold, and value.

 

[Parsimony]

You say that time travel is impossible while in the same breath saying that superluminal travel is possible. I would like for you to provide any kind of evidence that superluminal travel is possible.

Secondly, I addressed the clothing thing in the other thread: sleepwalking seems a reasonable explanation. I also wonder why you think that extraterrestrials are capable of putting someone's clothes on backwards but that ultraterrestrials, advanced dinosaurs, or advanced humans would somehow not be able to do the same thing if they existed? Lastly, I don't actually believe in any of these theories. I only used them to illustrate that extraterrestrials are not the only possible answer.

Funny you say that some of these theories are based on seeing too many movies, as there are plenty others out there that believe that extraterrestrial reports are based on seeing too many movies as well.

You act as if aliens have been proven to exist but have not yet offered up any hard evidence that this must be the case. I've seen others who are just as convinced that these "aliens" are demons: This is one account Since you seem to like anecdotal evidence so much, then why not have some related to this theory? Alien Abduction Termination Case Files. I think it would be kind of strange for physical beings from another planet to stop their abduction attempt just because their victim invoked the name of a local religious figure, don't you? However, this would make sense if (1) it is all in the abductees' mind and therefore their beliefs alone are sufficient to make the beings leave, (2) they are psychic apparitions which are affected by beliefs and leave for the same reason as before, (3) the beings are demonic and therefore really compelled by the power of Christ, or (4) the abductees are lying.

I would also like to point out that if an advanced civilization really does plan on doing something with us, we have absolutely no chance of stopping them on our own. That would be like termites uniting against an exterminator. Any species that can enter and exit the atmosphere at leisure and travel light-years would be ridiculously more advanced than us.

As far as Betty and Barney Hill go, you do know that not only did their descriptions of the aliens differ from each other, but that their descriptions varied over time too, right? Betty initially said that the aliens had big noses and Barney said they had no noses. Not only that, but Barney was reluctant to believe what they saw was a UFO until he gave into Betty's nagging (this was long after the supposed abduction even took place). Take a look here for more information: Betty and Barney Hill: A Study in Madness