UC Professor. No evidence in the Bible attributing Satan as being evil.

[syo]

When a person thinks about it, there's really not any evidence in the Bible that indicates Satan as actually being evil.

Thoughts or comments?

i believe satan is a servant of god whose job is to bring people to temptation.

 

[Enoch07]

I arrived at the same conclusion. Biblical scripture should be read critically like any other work not claiming to be fiction, and not under the assumption that what one is about to read is the infallible account of a good god.

Why are you quoting me talking to Evangelicalhumanist as if I were talking to you?

It can be read critically, but you don't have the right to dictate to me your interpretation. Or to claim your interpretation is valid at all for that matter.

 

[Nakosis]

UCLA research professor Henry A Kelly
after a 40 year study.

2006 University article.........

What the Devil? Prince of Darkness Is Misunderstood, Says UCLA Author of New Satan ‘Biography’

Satan is not actually evil and is misunderstood.

When a person thinks about it, there's really not any evidence in the Bible that indicates Satan as actually being evil.

Thoughts or comments?

Perhaps a pagan collusion to introduce the God of the underworld into Christianity.

The Hebrews had a God who was in charge of both good and evil. The Romans seemed to have snuck in a few demigods in there.

The demigods of other beliefs became the Trinity, angels and demons. A demigod by any other name...

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Thanks, that settles the argument then. The Professor is incorrect, for whatever reason. I don't care really which you pick one. I'll share the love.



Non-sequitur, this has nothing to do with the argument.

The argument is not about who wrote the bible.

The argument is about whether the Bible actually shows Satan to be evil or not. There are many many verses conveying this, Genesis, Job, John, etc. Revelations 12:9 is the most clear because it even references Satan as the serpent from Genesis wrapping the whole deal up with a nice bow on top of it. So the dispute is settled. I look forward to your apology.

That was an attempt to duck what I was implying. It is not about "who wrote the Bible," it is about whether or not the Bible is -- and can be shown to be -- objectively correct. If the Harry Potter series of books could be shown as such, then we would have to believe that witches and wizards fly on broomsticks and kill each other by waving magic wands. It isn't, and they don't.

Likewise, I do not know of any way to shoe the Bible to be objectively correct, either, and therefore whatever it might say about Satan (including whether Satan exists) is pure imagination. And by the way, if the Bible is objectively correct, the questions being put to you by @A Vestigial Mote are legitimate, because the only correct answer necessarily makes God a murderer -- cold-hearted and deliberate.

 

[Enoch07]

I'll put this plainly so that everyone can understand.

Stop now and look at it objectively.

I am not trying to prove anything but what the Bible has written in it.

Revelations 12:

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

Combine that with Genesis 3:1

3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

John 8:4

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


These verses are documemted evidence within the Bible that refutes the Professor claim that the Bible has no evidence Satan is evil.

Whether or not any God or any of this exist is irrelevent to the topic. The Professor made a claim, I refuted it. End of story.

Edit: technical difficulties

 

[1213]

How do you feel about abortion?

I think it is wrong, if people murder others, even if they are miniature ones and can't defend themselves.

What does that make God?

I think person who gives freedom and life, also for those who hate Him, is good.

 

[1213]

Since when is it OK to murder the innocent - because of a supposed future in heaven?

I think it is never ok to murder people. And even if God allowed Satan to do wrong things, it doesn’t mean that the wrong things are acceptable. And I think all murderers would deserve death, even Satan also.

 

[Ingledsva]

This thread is about the NT. Not the Tanakh. Build a bridge and get over it.

That is hilarious, - when that was a reply to your post asking why the serpent spoke in GENESIS. Very obviously Tanakh. LOL!

And obviously - this thread is NOT only about the NT.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

I think it is never ok to murder people. And even if God allowed Satan to do wrong things, it doesn’t mean that the wrong things are acceptable. And I think all murderers would deserve death, even Satan also.

Satan? Interesting that you are skipping over the personal murders that your bible says YHVH committed against the very obviously innocent.

David's infant son? The firstborn of Egypt?

As for Satan; - if you read the Job story you will find that it says YHVH caused it all the way through to the end.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

I'll put this plainly so that everyone can understand.

Stop now and look at it objectively.

I am not trying to prove anything but what the Bible has written in it.

Revelations 12:

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

Combine that with Genesis 3:1

3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

John 8:4

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


These verses are documemted evidence within the Bible that refutes the Professor claim that the Bible has no evidence Satan is evil.

Whether or not any God or any of this exist is irrelevent to the topic. The Professor made a claim, I refuted it. End of story.

Edit: technical difficulties

LOL! Didn't you try to shut down my posts telling me not to use Tanakh - that this thread was about the NT? LOL! And there you have Gen 3. LOL!

Nothing in the NT refutes the original writers characterization of Satan in the Hebrew religion. There is NO evil autonomous Satan in Tanakh. As I said before - our Jewish members can tell you this.

The professor is correct. A much later religion took the Tanakh and tacked it onto the new religion, and misconstrued the Satan character.

And again - Tanakh does not say the serpent is Satan, and the serpent is condemned forever to slither on the ground, - thus again, - obviously NOT SATAN.

*

 

[Enoch07]

And obviously - this thread is NOT only about the NT.

*

Wrong, the Book of John is not in the Tanakh. In

John 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Clearly the Bible stated the devil is evil. The Professor has been refuted. Get over it!

 

[Enoch07]

There is NO evil autonomous Satan in Tanakh.

Irrelevant. The Book of John says Satan is evil. The Professors argument has been refuted.

 

[Ingledsva]

I think it is never ok to murder people. And even if God allowed Satan to do wrong things, it doesn’t mean that the wrong things are acceptable. And I think all murderers would deserve death, even Satan also.

Isn't that like saying the MOB boss isn't responsible for his actions which resulted in deaths, because his servant carried out the murders?

*

 

[Grandliseur]

No words would be convincing evidence of a god.The best that a prophet could do is wow us with his ability to see into the future, and then, only with high quality prophecy - specific, unexpected, not self-fulfilling, etc.

I disagree,
If e.g. Genesis chapter one had been expanded to something that only our best minds could see was the scientific truth, math, physics, chemistry, and going beyond so that they had to admit that this was science that surpassed humans to a significant degree, that would be evidence of a fundamental truth of the claims made in whatever regard they were made when also including falsification of some of the claims.

Yes, believers and unbelievers see one another differently. People who believe in gods remind me of someone who drops sacrificial children into a volcano while praying to an imagined deity to spare them their lives.

Incidentally, skeptics don't oppose any gods, nor do they talk to them.

I prefer dropping atheists and wicked people, w. police, w. presidents, tyrants into this metaphorical volcano.

Incidentally, skeptics don't oppose any gods, nor do they talk to them.

You are being intentionally dense, I hope.

 

[Ingledsva]

Irrelevant. The Book of John says Satan is evil. The Professors argument has been refuted.

And how would that be?

Satan is a character in another religions book. That book tells us Satan is a servant of YHVH. Just as the professor concluded - thus he is correct.

A later religion stealing another religions Satan, mistranslating Tanakh texts, and turning Satan into an evil autonomous being, - does not actually make that character such.

The Christian trained professor found this out.

*

 

[Enoch07]

And how would that be?

Satan is a character in another religions book. That book tells us Satan is a servant of YHVH. Just as the professor concluded - thus he is correct.

A later religion stealing another religions Satan, mistranslating Tanakh texts, and turning Satan into an evil autonomous being, - does not actually make that character such.

The Christian trained professor found this out.

*

What another religion thinks is irrelevant to this discussion.

In Christianity he is the villain as John 8:44 clearly indicates.

 

[Ingledsva]

Wrong, the Book of John is not in the Tanakh. In

John 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Clearly the Bible stated the devil is evil. The Professor has been refuted. Get over it!

Tanakh is also in the Christian bible. They did steal it and twist it after all, - making it their OT!

Tanakh, the original, says Satan is a servant of YHVH, - it matters not what the much later new religion decided after mistranslating, and misunderstanding Tanakh.

The professor is correct .

*

 

[Ingledsva]

What another religion thinks is irrelevant to this discussion.

In Christianity he is the villain as John 8:44 clearly indicates.

Apparently you haven't looked into your Christian bible.

They did steal the Tanakh and add it to their new religion's bible - calling it the Old Testament.

AND IT - THE ORIGINAL - says Satan is a servant of YHVH.

It doesn't matter what the new religion that twisted, and mistranslated, and misunderstood about Satan in Tanakh, says.

*

 

[Enoch07]

All irrelevant to the topic.

 

[Ingledsva]

All irrelevant to the topic.

LOL! Hardly, we are after all discussing Kelly's book.

*