U.S.A - A Nation Founded on Christian Faith

[true blood]

I can't believe (well, I guess if you tell a lie loud and long enough the masses will believe it's true) people on these forums can argue that my nation,United States of America, wasn't founded on the Christian Faith. That's a total lie because it sure as heck was. Despite the volumes of evidence it was founded on the Christian Faith, what exactly can you find to give that arguement any merit?

Look at the divine references in the documents of the Decleration of Independence, Constitution, Mayflower Compact and Northwest Ordinance. These are documents that helped shape this nation.

Here's some quotes from the Founding Fathers of my Christian Nation that I was talking about. George Washington, Inarugural Speech:

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be particularly improper to omit, in his first official act, my fervent supplications to the Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and who's providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benedictation may consecrate to the liberties and happiness to the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes; and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, in the function allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts affairs of men more than the people of the United States"

"If I could have entertained the slightest apprehension that the Constitution framed by the Convention, where I had the honor to preside, might possibly endanger the religions rights of any ecclesiastical Society, certainly I would never have placed my signature to it—"

"Bless O Lord the whole race of mankind, and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy Son, Jesus Christ"

"Thou givest Thy Son to die for me, and has given me assurance of salvation, upon my repentance and sincerely endeavoring to confirm my life to His holy precepts and example"

"Direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the lamb, and purge my heart by thy Holy Spirit, from the dross of my natural corruption, that I may with more freedom of mind and liberty of will serve thee, the ever lasting God, in righteousness and holiness this day, and all the days of my life.

"Increase my faith in the sweet promises of the Gospel. Give me repentance from dead works. Pardon my wanderings, & direct my thoughts unto thyself, the God of my salvation. Teach me how to live in thy fear, labor in thy service, and ever to run in the ways of thy commandments. Make me always watchful over my heart, that neither the terrors of conscience, the loathing of holy duties, the love of sin, nor an unwillingness to depart this life, may cast me into a spiritual slumber. But daily frame me more and more into the likeness of thy son Jesus Christ, that living in thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time attain the resurrection of the just unto eternal life. Bless my family, friends & kindred unite us all in praising & glorifying thee in all our works begun, continued, and ended, when we shall come to make our last account before thee blessed Saviour, who hath taught us thus to pray, our Father."

"I consider it an indespensible duty to close this last solemn act of my official life by commending the interests of our dearest country to the protection of Almighty God and those who have the superintendence of them into His holy keeping."

 

[true blood]

Thomas Jefferson: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. We therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled appealing our Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our nations And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor."

"I consider the doctrines of Jesus as delivered to contain the outlines of the sublimest system of morality that has ever been taught"

"Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage; We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners."

"Save us from violence, discord, and confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues."

"Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those whome in Thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we may show forth Thy praise among the nations of earth."

"In time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in Thee to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen."

"My views are the result of a lifetime of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference of all others"

 

[true blood]

Benjamin Franklin: "In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle have observed frequent instances of superintending Providence in our favor.... And have we now forgotten this powerful Friend? Or, do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?"

"I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing I see of this truth: "that God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his Aid?"

"We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without his concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel; we shall be divided by our little, partial local interests; our projects will be confounded; and we shall become a reproach and a byword to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter, from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing
government by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war, or conquest."

"I therefore beg to move that, henceforth, prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven and it's blessing on our deliberation be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business."

 

[true blood]

Benjamin Rush: "The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty"

"Let the children who are sent to those schools be taught to read and write and above all, let both sexes be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education"

"It will be necessary to connect all these (academic) branches of education with regular instruction in the Christian religion"

"It is now several months since I promised to give you my reasons for preferring the Bible as a schoolbook to all other compositions. Before I state my arguments, I shall assume the five following propositions:

I . That Christianity is the only true and perfect religion; and that in proportion as mankind adopts its principles and obeys its precepts they will be wise and happy.

2. That a better knowledge of this religion is to be acquired by reading the Bible than in any other way.

3. That the Bible contains more knowledge necessary to man in his present state than any other book in the world.

4. That knowledge is most durable, and religious instruction most useful, when imparted in early life.

5. That the Bible, when not read in schools, is seldom read in any subsequent period of life.

My arguments in favor of the use of the Bible as a schoolbook are founded"

 

[true blood]

James Madison: "We have all been encouraged to feel the guardianship, and guidance of that Almighty Being, whose power regulates the destiny of nations."

"The belief in a God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the World and happiness and man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities to be impressed with it."

"I do therefore issue this my proclamation, recommending to all who shall piously disposed to unite their hearts and voices in addressing at one and the time their vows and adorations to the Great Parent and Sovereign of the Universe to render Him thanks for the many blessing He has bestowed on the people of the United States."

"A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest while we are building ideal monuments of Renown and Bliss here we neglect to have our name enrolled in the Annals of Heaven."

"Before any man can be considered a member of civil society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe."

"It is impossible for the man of pious reflection to to perceive in the ability of the delegates to reach agreement on the Constitution of the United States a finger of that Almighty Hand, which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief."

"I enter on the trust to which I have been called by the sufferage of my fellow-citizens with my fervent prayers to the Almighty that He will be graciously pleased to continue to us that protect which He has already so conspicuously displayed in our favor."

"When we view the great blessing with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we posses of handling them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly down to the source from whence they flow. Let us, then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgements for those blessing to the Divine Author of All Good."

"With a firm reliance on the protection of Almighty God, I shall forwith commence the duties of the high trust to which you have called me."

"Deeply impressed with the blessing which we enjoy, and of which we have much manifold proofs, my mind is irresistibly drawn to that Almighty Being, the great source source from whence they proceed and whom our most grateful acknowledgements are due."

"For these blessings we owe to Almighty God, from whom we derive them, and with profound reverence, our most grateful and unceasing acknowledgments."

"That these blessings may be preserved and perpetuated will be the object of my fervent and unceasing prayers to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe."

 

[true blood]

John Adams: "And may that being who is supreme over all, the Patron of Order, the Foundation of Justice, and the Protector in all ages of the world of virtuous liberty, continue His blessings upon this nation"

"Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not only of republicanism and of all free government, but of social felicity under all governments and in all the combinations of human society"

"The general principles, on which the Father achieved independence, were the only principles in which that beautiful assembly of young Gentlemen could unite And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the General Principles English and American Liberty, in which all these young men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert her Independence."

"Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System"

"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love and reverence toward Almighty God What a Utopia, what a Paradise would this region be."

"The Christian religion is, above all the Religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times the religion of wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and humanity."

 

[true blood]

John Quincy Adams: "I appear, my fellow-citizens, in your presence and in that of Heaven to bind myself by the solemnities of religious obligation to the faithful performance of the duties allotted to me"

"I shall look for whatever success may attend my public service; and knowing that 'except the Lord keep the city watchman waketh but in vain,' with fervent supplications for His favor, to His overruling providence I commit with humble but fearless confidence my own fate and the future destinies of my country."

"In taking a general survey of the concerns of our beloved country, with reference to subjects interesting to the common welfare, the first sentiment which impresses itself upon the mind is of gratitude to the Omnipotent Disposer of All Good for the incontinencies unusual extent that has prevailed within our borders, and for that abundance which in the vicissitudes of the seasons has been scattered with profusion over our land. Nor ought we less to ascribe to Him the glory that we are permitted to enjoy the bounties of His hand in peace and tranquility — in peace with all the other nations of the earth, in tranquility among ourselves. There has, indeed, rarely been a period in the history of civilized man in which the general condition of the Christian nations has been marked so extensively by peace and prosperity."

"The first and almost the only Book deserving of universal attention is the Bible."

"I speak as a man of the world to men of the world, and I say to you, Search the Scriptures! The Bible is the book of all others, to be read at all ages, and in all conditions of human life."

"From the day of the Declaration — they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledge as the rules of their conduct."

"Posterity — you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope that you make good use of it."

 

[PinkLemon]

i agree, it was founded on christianity. and im kinda sorry that it was.

 

[true blood]

Aye, we've only grown to be the world's greatest super power in less then 300 years.

 

[Pah]

The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion

The Northwest Ordinance (1787)m This document was crafted under the Articles of Confederation not the Constitution and thus is not the document that framed the nation we have become. Nowhere is Christ, Christianity or even God mentioned. Article 1 provides freedom of worship for any religion Article 3, as mention previously does not refer to Christianity.

Refutation of true blood's quotes and the Treaty of Trippoli found here

Our American Common Law

Common Law from the Catholic Encyclopedia Not only does this reference written by an authoritive Roman Catholic Church detail the history of common law, it shows the distinction between sectarion and secular law. And further,

When the thirteen American colonies achieved their independence, the English common law, as it existed with its legal and equitable features in the year 1607, was universally held by the courts to be the common law of each of the thirteen states which constituted the new confederated republic known as the United States of America. As the United States have increased in number, either by the admission of new states to the Union carved out of the original undivided territory, or by the extension of territorial area through purchase or contest, the common law as it existed at the close of the War of the American Revolution has been held to be the common law of such new states with the exception that, in the State of Louisiana, ...

Read 'em all and tell me if you need more to be convinced today's United States of America was founded in the common law brought from England - Christianity was not included in the Constitution by Christians. Only a non-descriptive reference to religion is visible in the Constitution - certainly Christianity was not specified.

-pah-

 

[true blood]

lol if you say so. The Founding Fathers would likely disagree. How can you say the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Mayflower Compact, and the Northwest Ordinances are not documents that helped shape this nation but you say only the Articles of Confederation is the sole document that did. Even the Articles of Confederation has references to God. "And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in Congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union" Please.

"Whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ and to enjoy the liberties of the Gospel in purity with peace; and whereas in our settling (by a wise providence of God) we are.." -From the Articles of Confederation

"The said United Colonies for themselves and their posterities do jointly and severally hereby enter into a firm and perpetual league of friendship and amity for offence and defence, mutual advice and succor upon all just occasions both for preserving and propagating the truth and liberties of the Gospel and for their own mutual safety and welfare" --From the Articles of Confederation

"(if it please God so to bless their endeavors) whether it be in lands, goods, or persons, shall be proportionately divided among the said Confederates. --AoC

 

[linwood]

First of all read this..

The Jefferson Bible.
http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

Jefferson despised religion (particularly the Christian religion) and said so anytime he felt it safe to do so.

I can play the quote game too...

Jefferson...

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

... the common law existed while the Anglo-Saxons were yet pagans, at a time when they had never yet heard the name of Christ pronounced or that such a character existed.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Major John Cartwright, June 5, 1824

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others.
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom


History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, June 25, 1819

Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799

I can go on and on and on, he made no secret of his beliefs as many founding fathers did.

I just purchased a copy of the Jefferson Adams Correspondence last week and have been slowly reading it along with Thomas Paines Rights of Man and Common Sense.

I am quite convinced niether Adams, Jefferson, or Paine could call themselves "Christian" in their later years.

I`ll go on with some Adams quotes next if you like, then I`ll go into Paine.

Please show me where either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution refers to Christianity at all.

 

[Pah]

lol if you say so. The Founding Fathers would likely disagree. How can you say the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Mayflower Compact, and the Northwest Ordinances are not documents that helped shape this nation but you say only the Articles of Confederation is the sole document that did. Even the Articles of Confederation has references to God. "And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in Congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union" Please.

It seems you understand me as poorly as you understand history.

• I said the Aritcles of Conderation was not the founding document for today's America
• I said the Northwest Ordinances was not a founding document because it was written by a government not founding today's government. And further I said is had no reference to God or Chritianity READ THE LINK!!
• I said, in another thread that the Mayflower Compact was only a founding document for a colony and not the first. The first and many subsequent charters were British documents.
• I hadn't addressed the Declaration of Independence(DOI) but will do so next
• The DOI was not a founding document (it esatablish no government)but a complaint to the Biritish throne and a notification of intent. Surely you can see the difference.

You do me an injustice.

Whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ and to enjoy the liberties of the Gospel in purity with peace; and whereas in our settling (by a wise providence of God) we are.." -From the Articles of Confederation



"The said United Colonies for themselves and their posterities do jointly and severally hereby enter into a firm and perpetual league of friendship and amity for offence and defence, mutual advice and succor upon all just occasions both for preserving and propagating the truth and liberties of the Gospel and for their own mutual safety and welfare" --From the Articles of Confederation


"(if it please God so to bless their endeavors) whether it be in lands, goods, or persons, shall be proportionately divided among the said Confederates. --AoC

NOT our founding document (explained above]

You have yet to respond here and in the other thread abiout the reality of common law being our founding philosophy. I have commented(via a link) to your quotes and you have igmored my points (in my links and comments). Wouldn't it be proper to respond to the points I made before going off on an erroneous tangent?

-pah-

 

[linwood]

Jefferson was a Unitarian and a deist...

I trust there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Waterhouse, June 26, 1822

I am anxious to see the doctrine of one god commenced in our state. But the population of my neighborhood is too slender, and is too much divided into other sects to maintain any one preacher well. I must therefore be contented to be an Unitarian by myself, although I know there are many around me who would become so, if once they could hear the questions fairly stated.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, January 8, 1825

Thomas Jefferson:

"Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage; We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners."

"In time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in Thee to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen."

Could you give reference for these two quotes?

I`ve never seen them before.

 

[painted wolf]

now for the other side a few of many examples

John Adams:

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"--John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson

"But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legaends, hae been blended with both Jewish and Chiistian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.--John Adams in a letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_, John A. Haught

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity." --John Adams

"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."--James Madison in a letter to Edward Livingston in 1822

"It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will best be guarded against by an entire abstinence of the Government from interference in any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others."--James Madison, "James Madison on Religious Liberty", edited by Robert S. Alley, ISBN pp 237-238

"The Civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the TOTAL SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE."--James Madison

Thomas Paine

"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)." -- Thomas Paine

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize [hu]mankind." -- Thomas Paine, _The_Age_of_Reason_

"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."--Thomas Paine

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, not by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church."--Thomas Paine, _Excerpts_from_The_Age_of_Reason:_Selected_Writings_of_Thomas_ Paine_, edited by Richard Emery Robers, NY Everybody's Vacation Publishing Co, 1945, p.342

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."--Thomas Paine, _The_Age_of_Reason

"Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all law-religions, or religions established by law."--Thomas Paine, _The_Rights_of_Man_, 1791, ed P.S. Foner, 1945

"Here it is that the religion of Deism is superior to the Christian Religion. It is free from all those invented and torturing articles that shock our reason or injure our humanity, and with which the Christian religion abounds. Its creed is pure, and sublimely simple. It believes in God, and there it rests."--Thomas Paine, _Of_The_Religion_of_Deism_Compared_With_the_Christian_Religion_

"As priestcraft was always the enemy of knowledge, because priestcraft supports itself by keeping people in delusion and ignorance, it was consistent with its policy to make the acquisition of knowledge a real sin."--Thomas Paine, _Of_The_Religion_of_Deism_Compared_With_the_Christian_Religion_

Thomas Jefferson
"The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system."--Thomas Paine, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_, James A. Haug
Thomas Jefferson

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are serviley crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blind faith." -- Thomas Jefferson

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."--Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association on Jan. 1, 1802, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 1903-04, 16:281

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."--Thomas Jefferson, _Notes_on_Virginia_, _Jefferson_the_President:_First_Term_1801-1805_, Dumas Malon, Boston: Little Brown and Company, 1970, p. 191

"...no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise.. affect their civil capacities."--Thomas Jefferson, _Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779, _The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited by Julron P. Boyd, 1950, 2:546
"...our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opnions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry"--Thomas Jefferson, _Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779, _The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited by Julron P. Boyd, 1950, 2:545

"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises."--Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Samuel Miller, 1808

"(When) the (Virginia) bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that it's protections of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantel of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohametan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."--Thomas Jefferson, from his autobiography, 1821, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 1:67

hope this helps point out the founders fundimental wish to keep religion out of government.

wa:do

ps. these quotes and others can be found at: http://www.atheism.org/~godlessheathen/Founders.html

 

[linwood]

Thanks Painted Wolf I don`t have to go digging around for the promised Paine Adams quotes now.

 

[Scott1]

pah, linwood, painted wolf.....


Great thread! Being new to the Christian faith, your posts were an education....... not that it matters to me personally which "founding father" had faith or not, but it was very interesting anyhow.

I do feel that the doctrine of religious freedom (free from state support and control) was largely influenced by those Colonists who were fleeing from religious persecution in England (by another group of "Christians" if I remember correctly)........ but to call the country a Christian nation sounds silly to me.

As a Christian and a veteran of three armed conflicts on behalf of the USA (Panama, Iraq, and Somalia) I can tell you that I would take up arms and fight for the United States of America today and any day.........

......... I would not fight for the Christian States of America...... it goes against the freedom that millions have fought and died for.

"....... and Justice for all."

Peace,
Scott

 

[PinkLemon]

become a superpower? yes. but we're also losing freedoms. you can't be a free country with a religion..it's impossible. religions have moral laws, government doesnt. like the gay marriage issue, how can we be a free country if we're trying to take away freedom from a group of people?

 

[linwood]

become a superpower? yes. but we're also losing freedoms. you can't be a free country with a religion..it's impossible. religions have moral laws, government doesnt. like the gay marriage issue, how can we be a free country if we're trying to take away freedom from a group of people?

These are the same thoughts all these founding fathers had.

It`s why they overwhelmingly chose to keep government and religion two seperate entities.

Great thread! Being new to the Christian faith, your posts were an education....... not that it matters to me personally which "founding father" had faith or not, but it was very interesting anyhow.

The way these men formed their ideas is very interesting not just their religious ideas either.

Don`t misunderstand the postings made here, these men were not atheists they were deists and for the most part did believe in a god just not necessarily the Christian god.

From what I can gather from his writings Jefferson afforded the highest respect for Jesus Christ as a teacher and reformer of intolerant jewish doctrine.

While it is my opinion Jefferson did not see Jesus as the son of god he did believe his teachings were very important for peaceful existence among people.

The Jefferson bible is essentially a small tract of the philosophies Jesus espoused with all of what he thought were the additions of the Catholic church stripped from it....just purely Christs word.

 

[true blood]

Jefferson was a Unitarian and a deist...

I trust there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Waterhouse, June 26, 1822

I am anxious to see the doctrine of one god commenced in our state. But the population of my neighborhood is too slender, and is too much divided into other sects to maintain any one preacher well. I must therefore be contented to be an Unitarian by myself, although I know there are many around me who would become so, if once they could hear the questions fairly stated.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, January 8, 1825




Could you give reference for these two quotes?

I`ve never seen them before.

On March 4, 1805 President Jefferson prayed a National Prayer for Peace: