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Featured Two Kinds of Salvation

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Ben Avraham, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. Ben Avraham

    Ben Avraham Well-Known Member

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    You probably do not know what love is. How could I hate someone if I do not know her?
     
  2. Ben Avraham

    Ben Avraham Well-Known Member

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    Right! Especially understanding of the Tanach which usually comes as a result of Christian preconceived notions.
     
  3. Ben Avraham

    Ben Avraham Well-Known Member

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    That's not true! I do not hate the Palestinians. Rather the opposite is true; they hate us! How do I know that? Every time Israel is ready for peace even to exchange territories for peace, they deny based on the premises that peace with the Jews is possible only if they leave the whole of the Middle East. How could I love such a people?
     
  4. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Don't lean on anything

    [​IMG].
     
  5. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    I do. I try to live a life of love. Do you?
    Interesting. Sounds similar to the question "Who is my neighbor?" You can't understand love until you can honestly answer that question.
     
  6. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    There is leaning and I am practicing not leaning.
    There is knowledge and understanding and wisdom and I think they are not all the same thing.
    The opposite of ignorance is knowledgeableness. I think that to seek true knowledge is what wisdom is. I think that righteousness is living according to the wisdom of GOD (and this is where leaning is learned).

    So, it seems to me that there are two camps.

    People who will not lean on spiritual matters, but they do not know how to not lean so they do not want to know anything about it.

    And then there are people who do lean, but they lean on their own version of God and I do think that the commandment not to make an image of GOD is a command that they are sinning against.
     
  7. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Strong's Hebrew: 8172. שָׁעַן (shaan) -- to lean, support oneself
    Hebrew Concordance: tiš·šā·‘ên -- 1 Occurrence

    Proverbs 28:26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But he who walks wisely will be delivered.

    To trust in your own heart is to lean on understanding.

    Define what it means to lean on understanding > To keep trusting human hearts.

    Lean is to trust. Understanding is to settle.

    I think that you might as well throw Proverbs 3:5 away as they have all changed the meaning of it.

    Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

    They took the meaning of lean away and created a new idea. They put the focus on "own" which wasn't even written in the first place there.

    Learn what it means to lean and learn how not to do it.

    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
    lean, lie, rely, rest on, self, stay
    A primitive root; to support one's self -- lean, lie, rely, rest (on, self), stay.

    On understanding do not lean.
     
  8. omega2xx

    omega2xx Well-Known Member

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    Moses never said keeping the law was the way to become righteous.
     
  9. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Salvation for this life.

    Salvation for the next life...
     
  10. Ben Avraham

    Ben Avraham Well-Known Member

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    I am for salvation for this life; from the troubles of this life; from the consequences of breaking the laws, and not salvation for the next life which does not exist. What we will all have in the afterlife is the only thing eternal about man aka Sheol aka the grave, the eternal home of all men. (Psalm 49:12,20)
     
  11. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    We've been down that road. Psalms that you quote, in context, says the grave is the eternal home of the wicked, Implying that the righteous do not see an eternal grave.
     
  12. Ben Avraham

    Ben Avraham Well-Known Member

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    Oh! Sorry! I thought that for you, Jesus was superior to Moses. Anyway, here is an evidence of righteousness that come as a result of obeying the Law. "The Lord will establish you as a righteous nation as He swore to you if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in His ways." (Deuteronomy 28:9) That was Moses saying to the People of Israel. So, was Jesus right or was he not when he warned us to listen to "Moses" aka the Law? (Luke 16:29-31)
     
    #232 Ben Avraham, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  13. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    But it says the Lord will establish you as a righteous nation, not the Law will establish you as a righteous nation. And what I get is the Lord is Jesus preincarnate.
     
  14. Ben Avraham

    Ben Avraham Well-Known Member

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    And you seem not to know your way back. Now, let me ask you a question. Have you ever seen a righteous one back from the grave? No. Nobody has. That's an evidence that Psalm 49:12,20 is for every one who has passed away, wick and righteous. Do you know the reason why no one has ever seen a righteous man back from the grave? Because the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach is telling the truth.
     
  15. Ben Avraham

    Ben Avraham Well-Known Member

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    Explanation of the above: The Lord will establish you as a righteous nation as a result of obeying the Law. Jus as Jesus said in his parable of the Richman and Lazarus: "To escape hell-fire you must listen to 'Moses' aka the Law." Regarding your claim that the Lord is Jesus is idolatry. As, no comment!
     
    #235 Ben Avraham, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  16. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Now you admit that Jesus is the Lord and gave you the Tanakh? The dead sleep in their graves until the judgement day. I remember when I read the OT I got the gist of that, if it didn't say it outright.
     
  17. Ben Avraham

    Ben Avraham Well-Known Member

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    Even Jesus himself did not admit that he was the Lord if you read Mark 12:32 when Jesus was asked by a Scribe about the greatest of the Commandments and he answered with the Shema. That HaShem is One and the Only Lord. (Deuteronomy 6:4) So, I admitted nothing of the sort. You are making up things which is not fair.

    The dead sleep in their grave forever. (Psalm 49:12,20) HaShem has nothing to do with the dead as He is a God of the living, not of the death.
     
  18. Ben Avraham

    Ben Avraham Well-Known Member

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    [
    Even Jesus did not know and I wonder why because, he mentioned a parable involving the Samaritan as being his neighbor when, in reality, he hated Samaritans. Why do I say so? Because when he sent his disciples on a mission to spread the gospel of salvation, he warned them not to take the way of the Gentiles, especially Samaritans. I wonder why because he was expected to know much better, according to Isaiah 46:2 that the Jews had been assigned as light unto to the Gentiles. And mind you, he himself said in his Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews that they were the light of the world. (Mat. 5:14)
     
  19. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    He never said he wasn't either.
     
  20. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    I sort of remember the OT talking about the "second death", so if a person can die twice there must be a resurrection.
     
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